This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
BandA wrote:They did freezing in Boston's Fort Point Channel to get through soft mud and under? a subway tunnel. It was a disaster; there was a collapse, flooding, destroyed equipment and fortunately no loss of life. The Ted Williams Tunnel by contrast was built in segments in a shipyard, floated, sunk, then joined and lined with cement. This was the only part of the project that was done on-time and on budget.
If the tunnel is too shallow, it could be damaged by ships or shifting sediments. If it is too deep, the approaches will be difficult to design.
They did freezing and tunnel jacking to go in between the Red Line subway and the existing railroad lines above - and only had inches to spare - these were access ramps to the Fort Point Channel tunnel.
There was no collapse. There WAS a flood when one of the Fort Point Channel tunnels (not one of the segments jacked into the frozen land) sprung a leak.
Tommy Meehan wrote:
Don't forget, the Hudson is a navigable river and thus under the control of the U.S. Coast Guard. So however Amtrak decides to build it's tunnels -- and there is no plan yet that I'm aware of (an EIS doesn't even have funding yet) -- the USCG will have to approve it before they can start building. In fact there are probably a number of federal and state agencies that will have oversight as well.
Not exactly. The Coast Guard's jurisdiction applies only to bridges, not tunnels. Their concern is keeping the channel open for navigation, which is why they issue federal bridge permits (as they did for the new Goethals Bridge). In this case the Army Corps of Engineers would have jurisdiction and issue a Section 10 Permit under the authority of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899. A Section 10 permit is needed to construct in navigable waters and tidal waters below the mean high water line. Structures and fill related to tunnel construction (piers, pilings, et al) would also have to conform to both NJ's and NY's coastal zone management plans. -
You can't fix stupid, but stupid eventually fixes itself.
Joseph Boardman Amtrak's CEO seems to be trying to create a sense of urgency for starting the Gateway project. Boardman is sounding the alarm on the current status of the North River tunnels. I'm a little surprised no one has commented on this. Boardman has been saying that within the foreseeable future Amtrak will have to take the Hudson River tunnels OOS one at a time for a comprehensive rehab. It's potentially a huge crisis.
Joseph Boardman warned that...the deterioration of the North River tunnels has accelerated since they were flooded with corrosive salt water during Superstorm Sandy in 2012. “We know that salt is speeding up the damage to cables and concrete and rails and ballast and all the things that it takes to maintain a reliable crossing under the Hudson River,” Mr Boardman said. Due to uncertainty over the speed of deterioration, it was unclear how long the existing tunnels would last, he added, it could be twenty years or seven. He estimated it would take eight to nine years to build replacements. Link
may sound dumb, but had any tbm construction been started for njt's cancelled tunnels? I mean it was cancelled when they were already working on building the overpass for 1&9 and work on the cliff face was probably a year out. I'd imagine a tbm takes several years to design and build so one should've been in the works already. If so, could amtrak resurrect that design?
Also not sure if it was asked, but whenever the new tunnels are finished. Are the 2 current tunnels going to be capped and closed off forever or completely rebuilt? I ask cause NJT wanted there tunnels to add capacity to NY by having 4 tunnels. If the 2 current tunnels are so far beyond repair then when the 2 new tunnels are completed, everyone will be basically right back at square one with only 2 tunnels going into NY.
