MTA Twenty-Year Capital Needs Assessment (October 2013)

You do have a point, besides if electrification is extended to Patchogue, most of the train traffic on the branch would come from Babylon anyways because THE ELECTRIC YARD is there. Babylon westward definitely needed to be elevated even Amityville, Copiague, and Lindenhurst because of the road networks and amount of busy North/South road arteries. By the way, the grade crossing on the Port Washington Branch you were talking about? That's Little Neck Parkway next to the Little Neck station, and that has been modified and turned into a fully four-quadrant gated crossing with 4 long gates and an island divider.

How much of the central extension row is intact from garden city to bethpage? I know the odds are putting the row back into service are 0 but would that be any easier than trying to add a Third track to the mainline? I don't think it's ever been considered by them but having a two track line thru the middle of Long Island connecting at bethpage would certainly help congestion.

i didn't see anything but do you think any of this capital will go towards ripping up unused/abandoned infrastructure? or would that just be a waste of money

fallenflag wrote:i didn't see anything but do you think any of this capital will go towards ripping up unused/abandoned infrastructure? or would that just be a waste of money

I'm not sure that would count as a capital project. Money for that would likely just come out of an operating budget or maybe even through one of the annual track plans.

But why bother? Once the track and the ROW is gone there is no hope of getting anything back. As long as the defunct track isn't posing a danger to anyone or anything, leave it alone.

BM6569 wrote:How much of the central extension row is intact from garden city to bethpage?

About none. The secondary ends at Endo road, west of the Meadowbrook Parkway. It's pretty shabby once the Hempstead branch turn off a few hundred feet past Garden.

The original ROW then extends thru a county park, a county jail, the middle of suburban Levittown and suburban Bethpage. It would also cross the Wantaugh Parkway and the Seaford Oyster Bay expressway.

Chance of being rebuilt: <chuckles>

if i'm reading it right it says they want to replace the current diesel fleet?

are the DE/DMs really that inefficient? i know the better choice would've been shelf locomotives but really why are they in such a rush to replace only 15 year old equipment?

fallenflag wrote:if i'm reading it right it says they want to replace the current diesel fleet?

are the DE/DMs really that inefficient? i know the better choice would've been shelf locomotives but really why are they in such a rush to replace only 15 year old equipment?

The plan was a 20 year needs assessment. There was no real concrete timeframe for when they were planning on doing things. By the end of that time period the DE's or DM's will be 35 years old and replacement will definitely be on the table.

RE: Electrification further into Suffolk County:

I've been saying for years that the Main Line east of KO has been severely underutilized for the vast potential that it has. In between the *literally* straight track from KO and Riverhead with only 2 significant curves in between and no more than 20 grade crossings throughout the 25 mile stretch (many of which are in rural areas and could be grade separated without ruining the character of municipalities) it's nothing short of perfect for higher-speed (80-90-100? mph) running.

However I can't help but ask (granted, a rather rhetorical question, but alas) why is the LIRR not only 1) proposing a possible extension of electrification east of KO but 2) why do they seem to subtly implying going all the way out to Riverhead? And for that matter why now after all these years of repeated calls for simply more frequent diesel shuttles? And the only reasons I can think of are:

1) The ability to expand the parking facilities in Ronkonkoma is just about impossible as well as costly and/or a large number of the parking spaces have been taken up by commuters driving from Medford, Yaphank, Calverton, and other towns on or near I-495 who would rather drive to Ronkonkoma to catch one of many trains to NYP than try to catch the one AM shuttle to KO and then transfer to a train to NYP.

2) Since the Mid-Suffolk Electric Yard will result in electric trains running at least to Yaphank the rationale is "why not maximize the bang for the buck and extend the 3rd rail another 15 miles and get more frequent service out of it?" Furthermore this would free up the diesel shuttle to provide more frequent Riverhead-Greenport service.

3) The political pressure in Suffolk County for better LIRR service for the MTA taxes they pay has grown to a breaking point (behind closed doors or not) and this is one way the MTA plans to properly compensate the county by extending/increasing electric train service deeper into eastern LI.

4) LI/Suffolk County lawmakers, legislators, etc. want Riverhead to be better connected/become the true center of Suffolk County (as the Hamptons get most of the attention anyway) and extending electric train service will be a big first step in that direction.

I think the main reason why Yaphank has been focused on as the endpoint of electrification at this stage is because that's where the Mid-Suffolk electric yard will be going in. We've been hearing about that yard for a while, so logic would dictate that the LIRR has likely found at least some sort of land that they can workably construct this yard (and perhaps they have already set such formalities in motion). Riverhead would be east of the yard, and there aren't that many yards that are connected to the second-to-last stations on LIRR lines (i.e. Babylon and Ronkonkoma have the yards, not Lindenhurst and Central Islip). That shouldn't be limiting expansion of electrification to Riverhead, and in my opinion substantially increased service out of Yaphank and the new yard with slightly elevated service east of there would be an acceptable fix for the moment (i.e. half the trains go to Riverhead and turn there, and half drop out at YA and go into the yard).

One might ask why doesn't the LIRR just put the yard in Riverhead if that's where everybody wants the electrification to end? A cursory look at Google sattelite imagry doesn't show much room in Riverhead-proper for a yard of any decent size, as the station is more in town than the others, so that might be a further factor.

One more ideological question, should the LIRR extend electrification to Yaphank (or Riverhead), would there be grounds for the LIRR to restore service to towns like Holtsville? (or Manorville and/or Calverton if we're going to Riverhead). While the demand might not have been there years ago when they were closed, would they draw sufficient crowds if forty trains stopped there a day instead of four?

lirr42 wrote:One more ideological question, should the LIRR extend electrification to Yaphank (or Riverhead), would there be grounds for the LIRR to restore service to towns like Holtsville? (or Manorville and/or Calverton if we're going to Riverhead). While the demand might not have been there years ago when they were closed, would they draw sufficient crowds if forty trains stopped there a day instead of four?

i would say definitely Holtsville. maybe either Manorville or Calverton but not both.

lirr42 wrote:One more ideological question, should the LIRR extend electrification to Yaphank (or Riverhead), would there be grounds for the LIRR to restore service to towns like Holtsville? (or Manorville and/or Calverton if we're going to Riverhead). While the demand might not have been there years ago when they were closed, would they draw sufficient crowds if forty trains stopped there a day instead of four?

Holtsville sounds like a likely fill-in stop (provided they can build a sufficient parking lot). Manorville/Calverton? Who knows. If a station went back in there it might not draw big crowds, but something tells me they'll want in when/if electric service is extended just for the connectivity factor. Unless they're afraid having frequent rail service in their town will attract urban sprawl (which I don't see happening there given the distance from NYC). Mastic-Shirley and Speonk (which are more or less equidistant) AFAIK haven't seen such activity aside from perhaps a handful of housing developments.

Not sure if a new thread is needed for this, but there's two interesting bits in the LIRR section of the 2014-2019 Capital Program at least somewhat pertaining to the electrification expansion proposal(s).

1. $10M for preliminary work for a new electric rail yard on the Port Jefferson Branch.

2. Signaling system installations between Babylon and Patchogue ($55M) and Ronkonkoma and Yaphank $37M).

Link here: http://web.mta.info/capital/pdf/Board_2 ... rogram.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With Port Jeff and Patchogue likely being 2 of the 3 the new termini for electrification under last year's 20 Year plan it sure sounds like they are going ahead and laying the groundwork for the extensions. Furthermore, this leads to believe that the Mid-Suffolk yard in Yaphank is still a-go.

All talk. Do you know how long they have been trying to build these yards? Hopefully it stays like that as well.

The new president of the LIRR has also put on the table of renewing Belmont Park by adding new platforms (possibly high) because it's the only low-level platform station. I'm on board for that since I believe in a fully ADA Accessible LIRR.