Coming to America -Advice needed .

I have won a business trip to the USA . After the trip i have the option of extending the flight home , and are seriously considering doing so , to ride Amtrak of course . ( I have been to the USA twice before (total about 8 months , and December is not the best month to be a tourist . ) , so a week to 10 days is the time i would extend .
We end up in Minneapolis St Paul on the 1st of December . The following trains are ones I would like to ride , or haven't ridden before .
-Empire builder to Chicago( ridden before but i would need to get to Chicago anyway ) .
- Cardinal to New York , or Capitol to Washington .
- Adirondack (possibly to Montreal ) .
- Vermonter to Washington ( bus Montreal -Burlington , or return on Adirondack .
the most specific areas i want to ride are ,
-capitol route Pittsburgh -Washington
- Cardinal eastern end (new river gorge etc ) .
-Ny -Albany ,( maybe consider doing it as a side trip as well as Adironack for daylite viewing ).
Secondary trips i may consider ,
-Chicago- Detroit
- chicago St Louis ,
- Chicago - Los Angeles , ( have travelled all western routes before , except Texas Eagle , CONO) .

I guess what i need advice on most is , best directions to travel , and what time its likely to get dark , (I'm picking around 5pm ). The part giving me the most trouble , is the Adirondack
- Vermonter route .I don't particularily want to go up to Montreal , then have to bus down to St.Albans -Burlington .but there appears to be no other transport options at this time of year . Is the scenery on the Vermonter route worth the trouble , or do i just return on the Adirondack ?.
If i take a rail pass , i will be restricted to 8 sections , but it seems that would cover all these trips anyway .

Take the Cardinal eastbound because you will lose daylight on the westbound trip well before you hit anything scenic. The westbound Cardinal in December is pretty much pointless.

I have found the ALB-NYP section beautiful almost any time of the year or day.

That said, SB, I'd do early in the morning in the winter (like 8:00 AM or so), and if you'r doing it NB, I'd do later in the 3-4 PM leaving NYP.

The interesting part of the Adirondack is S. of Plattsburgh, NY. There is a ferry from farther out of town than you want to walk across to S. Hero Island in VT, but you would have to arrange for a taxi to get you to or from Burlington (which has a moderately interesting downtown). The best scenery on the Vermonter is Essex Jct. to Brattleboro. By December 1, light will be limited before 0730 and after 1530.

Note that, if my (not an employee) worries about just how much obsolete hardware was being nursed along in New York's Penn Station and its approaches are well founded, it may not be back in full operation by then. This will affect schedules. If Obama is by then a lame duck, money won't be flowing to Amtrak either, but that matters less than our limited manufacturing capacity for sophisticated signal gear compatible with electrification.

what Jersey_Mike says about the Cardinal is true of any Chicago-east train, the daylight scenery is much better eastbound than westbound. All of them westbound have sunset somewhere in or before the mountains, even in summer, except the Lake Shore Limited, and some of them will leave their eastern termini in darkness in deep winter. Eastbound however most have sunrise before they get to the mountains.
Greg Moore, what's so special about NY-ALB southbound morning and northbound evening? I think it's great scenery any time of daylight.

My first Adirondack ride was northbound a day before Christmas in the 1980's, return a week later. There was plenty of sun northbound, but it did get too dark to see much of the Hudson southbound, and today's schedule seems to have comparable sunset times.

I recently (two weeks ago) made a similar trip and will offer a few observations. My apologies that some of them don't exactly fit some of your desired trackage.

Since lots of EB riders detrain in Minneapolis you might want to check the sleeper inventory the morning of your departure. I was able to pick up a family bedroom (windows on both sides!) for less than $100 for my ride from MSP to CHI. Keep in mind that they do not add a coach to the EB in MSP in winter so general boarding in MSP can be a real cattle call.

I got around the daylight problem between Chicago and the east coast by making a Canada detour. I rode the Wolverine to Detroit and took a cab to the Windsor Tunnel (about $10). A Windsor city bus picks up passengers at the tunnel entrance ($4 USD or CAD) and takes you through customs and downtown Windsor. (it did not appear than any Detroit cab drivers were willing to cross the border). I spent the night in Windsor and got on a Via train to Toronto (Windsor Via station requires a $10 cab ride from downtown), and then a day later another Via to Montreal where I transferred to the Adirondack the next day. I was _very_ impressed with Via's business class.

EDIT: I travel pretty light so the Detroit / Windsor transfer was relatively painless for me. Lots of luggage would make it significantly more of a drag.

Alternatively to the above you could get the Maple Leaf in Toronto and ride it to Albany or NYP. While the Canada detour takes you away from desired trackage it can all be done during the day.

Keep in mind that the Lake Champlain ferries do not run in winter (the lake freezes). Getting from the Adirondack to Vermont will be tough this time of year.

Don't forget the possibility of the Pittsburgh Capitol Ltd / Pensylvanian transfer -- it can help you get more daylight trackage than the CL alone. Keep in mind the timing on this is much more pleasant westbound than eastbound. (westbound the timing is perfect to head out for dinner in Pittsburgh)

Both Detroit, Mich. and Windsor, Ont. have city buses between the train stations and the tunnel area, so taxis are not essential. The tunnel bus accepts both U.S. and Canadien money without discrimination, so watch the exchange rate to see which is cheaper to use.

Also if you are riding Coach on the Cardinal you are going to be in for a rough time in either direction when traveling alone. Be prepared to be stuck in an isle for 24 hours next to someone unpleasant.

Patrick Boylan wrote:what Jersey_Mike says about the Cardinal is true of any Chicago-east train, the daylight scenery is much better eastbound than westbound. All of them westbound have sunset somewhere in or before the mountains, even in summer, except the Lake Shore Limited, and some of them will leave their eastern termini in darkness in deep winter.

I will concur with what you sat about the Lake Shore Limited, both out of New York and Boston. 449 leaves Boston at Noon and crosses Massachusetts during the afternoon. The scenery as it snakes its way along rivers and around the hills is quite beautiful, especially as it makes its way through the Berkshires, west of Springfield. Unfortunately Train 448, its eastbound counterpart, usually begins its transit of Massachusetts just before dark. Much good has been said before of 49's route out of NYP, I've done it on the Adirondack, but its 3:45 PM departure from New York leaves little time for full light.

As stated above, the route from NYP to ALB is good in either direction, but northbound in December you need a train that gets into Albany (or southbound, into NYP) by 1600 -- it would be a shame to ride it in the dark.

ExCon90 wrote:As stated above, the route from NYP to ALB is good in either direction, but northbound in December you need a train that gets into Albany (or southbound, into NYP) by 1600 -- it would be a shame to ride it in the dark.

I was actually on #48 a few weeks ago going into NYP (it was 2 hours late) and there was a full moon out on the Hudson, it was pretty nice (albeit not as nice as it is on a sunny afternoon).

In terms of scenery, I would say try out the Lake Shore Limited. You'll get plenty of nice scenery in Upstate New York.

thanks all , very helpful . Am waiting to hear from travel agent as to what flights i can actually change .
Plan so far .,
Dec1 - Msp to CHI , Chi to NYP , via cardinal . ( roomette $461 so it will be coach )
tossing up now wether to take the Adirondack all the way , or maybe just a day return to port henry .There does appear to be a ferry from Platsburgh to Grand isle , and taxi service from there to burlington . or I just concentrate on NY - albany and have a good look around .
also now tossing up wether to take the southwest chief from Chicago to l.a , instead of flying . This would mean extending my stay a few days more than i wanted , but possibly giving me a flight to us on another portion . i have only taken the chief from Chi to lamy , so would give me a few more new amtrak miles . Mostly in the dark though .

One other thing , I've never actually seen Snow on lowland Terrain . ( we have plenty in the mountains , but in all my travels , I've never travelled through flat areas of snow . what are the chances of there been snow in any of these trips ?

David Benton wrote:One other thing , I've never actually seen Snow on lowland Terrain . ( we have plenty in the mountains , but in all my travels , I've never travelled through flat areas of snow . what are the chances of there been snow in any of these trips ?

I'd say better than 50/50. A decade or two ago I'd say even higher.

If you want the best chance to see snow in lowland (and then mountain) elevations I'd say head west from MSP on the Empire Builder.