Metro-North New Haven Line Penn Station Access

From what I've seen, the constant dimension in the 63rd Street Tubes plans is the LIRR top of rail to the NYCT top of rail, which is 16'-9". The lowest clearance I've seen for the LIRR tubes was 15'-4". This is based on the "trench method" design, which is just amazing to look at. Also, looking at the M-7 datasheet, the M-7 is 12'-11.5" high to the roof, 13'-4" to the top of the antenna. Thus ends my bunny trail.

D. Small

I will predict that ESA will end up being way behind schedule and way over budget. I sincerely believe it is a gross waste of money. I suppose they will decide to waste even more money on Metro-North to allow access to Penn Station but again it is in my opinion a gross waste of money especially regarding the Hudson Line. Politics in action!!!!!
Noel Weaver

The ESA is already behind schedule and will almost certainly be over budget. But I can't think of many projects of this scale that have ever come in on budget. Remember the "Chunnel", or "The Big Dig"? I to agree that it is a bit too much. I'd have rather seen a connection between GCT and Penn Station. Granted that would have been virtually impossible with all the undreground untilities and subway lines. At least my big plans don't cost anything!!

Noel, why do you feel that ESA is a gross waste of money? It seems like a worthwhile project that might increase ridership. Good for Long Island commuters who work on the east side. And good for anyone else who wants to connect between Metro-North and LIRR. The second level of the original tunnel already exists, so why not put it to use? Or do you feel the price tag is simply too high for what's being accomplished?

ESA is 18 months late and $800 million over budget. Estimates are it may wind up costing over $7 billion. I support expansion of commuter rail service, but the question must be asked............will it be worth it?

This project and a few others must be completed to hush those suburban commuters , if there not completed then getting funding for Urban Rail will always meet opposition... A Project could be killed off by the suburban politicians... Aside from that , I had no idea that it was costing this much , wasn't half the work done back in the 70s?

As of now, when is ESA supposed to be complete?

They're hedging their bets.

MTA was saying late 2016 and then last Fall -- after FRA and the LIRR Commuters Council both said publicly they thought that was unlikely -- MTA said early 2018.

Just a week or two ago (Jeff posted a news link in the LIRR ESA thread) MTA Capital Construction announced they had made some changes with the sub-contractors and they hoped to put the line in service by late 2016 after all.

Maybe.

I think this thread has been diverted onto the wrong track. We should get back to discussing MN trains to Penn Station, not the East Side Access Project.

Clean Cab wrote:Estimates are it may wind up costing over $7 billion. I support expansion of commuter rail service, but the question must be asked............will it be worth it?

It's a lot a money but you can look at it like this. Grand Central is a year away from celebrating it's 100th anniversary. ESA is going to serve people for centuries. It's a huge investment for the future that will save thousands of people literally millions of travel hours. It gives pretty much all of Long Island a direct mass transit connection with Westchester, Rockland, Dutchess and southwestern Connecticut. In addition to its main purpose, getting Long Islanders a one seat ride to east Midtown.

How do you decide what that's worth?

Personally, I think it's one of the greatest things they've ever done.

Especially if us Metro-North riders get Penn Station Access as a result!

As far as big projects are concerned, ESA is on time and under budget! You want to see a project that is late, try the Second Avenue Subway.

Regarding Penn Station access, I have to echo what others have said. Yes I can see the benefit of it. If these terminals and subways were built by the same railroad company, they would already be interconnected, but they were not. Unfortunately, in order to make Penn Station a viable option for MN, I'm afraid that Penn needs a total reconfiguration and expansion. Moynihan isn't going to do it. To do all of the work necessary in that area, my uneducated guess (I did stay at a Holiday Inn once, so that may count for something) is that a project of this magnitude would cost upwards of $20 billion and would take 10+ years if the shovels were in the ground now.

alewifebp wrote:As far as big projects are concerned, ESA is on time and under budget! You want to see a project that is late, try the Second Avenue Subway.

I don't know where you get your facts, but ESA is several years behind schedule and is costing twice it's original price. Check it out on wikipedia.com

Now can we get back to Penn Station Access?

Just food for thought... $7 billion and counting to provide alternative access to Manhattan covering only a distance of about 3/4 of a mile????? That's roughly $1.7 million per foot between Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station.

To quote a line from Jurassic Park: "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."

Ok, all this other stuff aside, just thought it was interesting that according to renderings of the LIRR Mezzanine in GCT that tracks would be numbered 201-204 and 301-304. I guess keeping in line with the numbering system used upstairs, even though tracks 200 and 201 will be very far apart!

Clean Cab wrote:

alewifebp wrote:As far as big projects are concerned, ESA is on time and under budget! You want to see a project that is late, try the Second Avenue Subway.

I don't know where you get your facts, but ESA is several years behind schedule and is costing twice it's original price. Check it out on wikipedia.com

That's why I put the smiley in there. I know it's late and over budget. These mega projects always are.