possibility of extending into lancaster???

If SEPTA extended into Lancaster, I see this as a cash cow since there are tourists going to Pennsylvania Dutch country. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Totally half-ass, if you know what I mean.

Remember, Amtrak lowered its fares between Philly and Harrisburg so the Amtrak is like the "commuter train." There will be even more service once the rehabilitation is done, which will include express service. Hopefully, a new station would be built at Paradise like said. Not only would it connect to the Strasburg steam train, but I'm sure it would connect to other attractions like the railroad museums and stagecoaches.

SEPTA service to Lancaster a cash cow? I highly doubt it. The dutch county is a tourist destination for motorist and bus tours. How many tourists currently ride the Keystone service to Lancaster? Whenever I’m riding to Harrisburg, it appears only locals or people visiting a local get on or off at Lancaster – not many traveling as a “leisure” destination. For SEPTA to bank on the tourist trade, you have to set up tour services that pick up at the Lancaster station, drive through all the sights, and then drop you off for the night train back to the city (OR there could be an overnight package). That would be way too much for SEPTA to handle.

On the flip side, the new station being built at Paradise, yes construction is in progress, should be a popular weekend/summer stop. Even with its proposed success, I doubt it would be enough to justify SEPTA extending service past Thorndale.

the sarge

The reason for SEPTA to extend service past Thorndale would be to replace Amtrak on the Harrisburg service. SEPTA could provide the service cheaper than Amtrak could, and could also integrate the Keystone and R5 services to increase efficiency (e.g. cut back some of the off-hour service to Malvern and have Harrisburg trains serve stations Exton-Thorndale).

Yes, but Amtrak still provides one thing SEPTA can't.




Bathrooms.

With an all electric operation coming up, maybe they could serve more of the stops, especially served only by Septa.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:With an all electric operation coming up, maybe they could serve more of the stops, especially served only by Septa.

On a related note, does Amtrak operate closed door between Downington and Center City Philadelphia, Monday through Saturday (and Paoli and Center City Sundays)?

As for SEPTA to Lancaster, they may need a waiver to operate beyond Downington Jct.

It would make sense if Amtrak were to cut out some of its stops, making the ride for those going to Lancaster or Harrisburg a bit faster.

But who wants to spend 2 hrs on a Silverliner with no bathrooms? Although since there is no food service on Amtrak, the only thing you're getting is a comfy seat and a quick ride to Paoli.

AMoreira81 wrote:On a related note, does Amtrak operate closed door between Downington and Center City Philadelphia, Monday through Saturday (and Paoli and Center City Sundays)?

Nope. Most trains stop at Ardmore, Paoli, Exton, and Downingtown. Passengers are carried between those stations and Philadelphia, though most are traveling through to other points.

As for SEPTA to Lancaster, they may need a waiver to operate beyond Downington Jct.

Not that I'm aware of. Amtrak owns the tracks of course, so there'd need to be an agreement with them for access (or a state buyout of the infrastructure from Amtrak). SEPTA would likely also insist on additional state or local funding for service into Lancaster County, but I don't think those things are the "waiver" you're referring to. They are not formally limited to serving only the five counties.

Matt Mitchell
[going out to Harrisburg again Friday]

Well at least Amtrak did cut some stations through the years between 30th Street and Lancaster. I remember when the Harrisburg trains stopped at Malvern and Whithford Pa. Although back then, they ran more expresses and the through trains to NYC skipped 30th Street; no layover for engine swaps. The days of the named Keystone trains like “The Big Apple” and the “Susquehanna” were great.

I think currently, one train from Harrisburg runs to 30th Street skipping Middletown, Mount Joy, Parkesburg, Coatesville, Exton, and Ardmore, and there are two trains repeating westbound. The scheduled trips for these limited stop trains is under two hours as to 2 ½ hrs for all stops and just over two hours for trains skipping some stops (Mostly skipping Coatesville with some skipping Middletown and Mount Joy). Not bad for a 104 mile route, I like to see how much time is shaved off once the improvements are finished. Better acceleration and higher tops speeds should do great things for this line.

When the line becomes 100% electric, it would be smart for them to bring back the cab cars so through trains to and from NYC can pull into 30th Street, switch cabs and do the break tests while boarding is in progress, and get out. This should at least cut the down time in half. I think a 10 minute stop at 30th would suffice, not the 20, to 30 minute layovers that are scheduled. I know many railroad illiterate people who opt not to take Amtrak from the western suburbs to NYC because of this delay or switching trains.

As for SEPTA, I do remember riding the Silverliners to Harrisburg. What a bumpy and uncomfortable ride. From Philly to Harrisburg, the ride just west of Cork to Harrisburg was agonizing, because around this point, my bladder needed relief and the rough jointed rail did not help!!

When was the last time there was a through train from Harrisburg to DC via 30th St?

I do not recall any through trains to DC from Harrisburg via 30th Street. If Amtrak did, it was very temporary. The only running modifications I know of, other then Harrisburg – PHL – and/or NYC, was during Amtrak’s short run of the Atlantic City Expresses. I think one train went to AC from Harrisburg via 30th, and one started from DC to AC.

In the PRR days, trains went straight to DC from Harrisburg, I think via York PA. Even in the very early Amtrak days, the Broadway Limited split in Harrisburg with the DC leg traveling south via the Port Deposit line.

the sarge wrote:I do not recall any through trains to DC from Harrisburg via 30th Street. If Amtrak did, it was very temporary.

It was. IIRC, there was one such run for a year or so about ten years ago.

SEPTA already runs to Lancaster. I forget the exact train numbers, but one round trip per day is designated the "CORK" train. If/when SEPTA train crew need to qualify past THORN the CORK train runs out to CORK and back.

I am assuming its been curtailed with the power being cut past THORN.

the sarge wrote:

SEPTA service to Lancaster a cash cow? I highly doubt it. The dutch county is a tourist destination for motorist and bus tours. How many tourists currently ride the Keystone service to Lancaster? Whenever I’m riding to Harrisburg, it appears only locals or people visiting a local get on or off at Lancaster – not many traveling as a “leisure” destination. For SEPTA to bank on the tourist trade, you have to set up tour services that pick up at the Lancaster station, drive through all the sights, and then drop you off for the night train back to the city (OR there could be an overnight package). That would be way too much for SEPTA to handle.

The sarge is correct. Touring Lancaster is not like visiting a large urban area. The tourist attractions are distributed across a wide area. Red Rose Transit Authority, while providing service to some tourist areas, is not particularly attractive for tourist travel, especially with the limited service on the weekend when the majority of Philadelphia -area tourists travel there. Traffic in the suburban and exurban areas around Lancaster slows the buses, making them even less attractive.

Even with sarge's private operator tour bus, I see very little synergy between rail service and the tourist trade in Lancaster.