Portland Maine Passenger Stations

A couple of notes of relevance to this thread.

First, the Portland Transportation, Sustainability and Energy Committee has on next Wednesday's agenda a draft "Use of the Thompson’s Point Transit TIF" memo, the beginning of a discussion about how to use the money that will be sequestered from the TIF. Looks like a potential Bus Rapid Transit setup from the PTC to downtown might be the first step.

Second, the Portland, Maine History 1786 to Present Facebook group has added quite a few photos of late, including some of the hitherto-thought-never-to-have-been-photographed Commercial Street Station (that eventually would be the site of MP 0.0 of the MEC).

markhb wrote:Second, the Portland, Maine History 1786 to Present Facebook group has added quite a few photos of late, including some of the hitherto-thought-never-to-have-been-photographed Commercial Street Station (that eventually would be the site of MP 0.0 of the MEC).

What a great find! Nice catch.

markhb wrote:First, the Portland Transportation, Sustainability and Energy Committee has on next Wednesday's agenda a draft "Use of the Thompson’s Point Transit TIF" memo, the beginning of a discussion about how to use the money that will be sequestered from the TIF. Looks like a potential Bus Rapid Transit setup from the PTC to downtown might be the first step.

I'm glad they're looking at the Jetport as well. This will be an essential element of success when (not if) SWA begins operations at PWM. I still believe that there is strong potential for the Downeaster to serve as a feeder from Southern Maine to PWM (if an express shuttle is in place). This is a role that to my knowledge it does not currently fulfill. It would also mean a very significant increase in passenger counts going through the PTC.

gokeefe wrote:

markhb wrote:First, the Portland Transportation, Sustainability and Energy Committee has on next Wednesday's agenda a draft "Use of the Thompson’s Point Transit TIF" memo, the beginning of a discussion about how to use the money that will be sequestered from the TIF. Looks like a potential Bus Rapid Transit setup from the PTC to downtown might be the first step.

I'm glad they're looking at the Jetport as well. This will be an essential element of success when (not if) SWA begins operations at PWM. I still believe that there is strong potential for the Downeaster to serve as a feeder from Southern Maine to PWM (if an express shuttle is in place). This is a role that to my knowledge it does not currently fulfill. It would also mean a very significant increase in passenger counts going through the PTC.

Thinking of the existing Downeaster stations in Maine, I don't see any with the possible exception of Wells having enough parking to be able to tolerate long-term overnight users; Freeport has plenty in terms of sheer number of spaces but the existing demand there is so great that I'd be surprised if they want that traffic either. Plus, not only is parking at PWM plentiful and convenient, but the long-term day rate is roughly the same as a one-way ticket from Wells (and I predict Brunswick) to Portland. Yes, then you need to add in mileage, gas and tolls, but in exchange for that you're leaving your car under cover in a moderately-controlled facility as opposed to a wide-open unattended lot. Finally, there's the unhelpful current train timetable into Portland; you certainly aren't going to make the 6 Am departure rush via Amtrak. In short, so far as development of this market goes I'll believe it when I see it.

Incidentally, all airlines at PWM have relocated their ticketing counters to the new lobby; the TSA corrals in the middle of the floor are officially history! This does leave a tremendous gap in the terminal floor layout, but my understanding is that Paul Bradbury (the Jetport manager) does have a plan, some of which dovetails with an idea I had, which I mentioned on a tour and which prompted him to a) call me a very smart man, and b) ask me not to talk about it.

Disclaimer: poster is a City of Portland taxpayer, which gives him a financial interest in the success of both the Jetport and its expensive (to build) parking garage.

I agree the schedule, as is doesn't support the 6am rush at PWM. That could and likely will change at some point in the future. Eventually, I would think Thompson's Point will have some effect in this regard.

As far as the financial equation goes, anytime you start talking about three to four days I think it starts to work strongly in favor of the free parking. I also think that although the parking lot in Saco (SAO) is indeed small there appears to be substantial room for expansion. At least initially a handful of overnighters wouldn't be an issue. Long term, I agree, anything more than that could become an issue, but that's probably an issue that NNEPRA would rather have, than not.

Long term parking at Old Orchard Beach (ORB) depending on the time of year would either be a serious nuisance (if you could even find a spot...) or the most convenient parking next to a railroad station platform just about anywhere in the world.

The biggest problem at some point might be people parking at the PTC and using the free BRT to PWM to take advantage of the $9/day differential. That could be a serious problem for which NNEPRA will probably want to ensure they have a solution prior to there being a problem. As things stand they already don't have enough parking at the PTC for everyday operations. I have seen cars parked on the grass (still apparently paying $3/day...) during school vacation weeks.

For general discussion:

As evidence of my previous mention of parking issues at the PTC, this is what it looks like on a regular basis everyday.

The DIY "Overflow" parking is usually on the easterly side from the Fore River Parkway south right along the edges. To my knowledge nobody, including Concord Coach or NNEPRA has ever complained, although they do have a "FULL" sign that is now a permanent resident next to the entry gate and is turned to display the lot status as needed.

Depending on developments at Thompson's Point, there is likely room for expansion and improvement here as well. Hopefully NNEPRA will get a large facility built in Portland with the requisite parking facilities provided etc. and of course a new northbound track towards Brunswick (BRK), to eliminate the need for a time-consuming reverse move.

gokeefe wrote:The biggest problem at some point might be people parking at the PTC and using the free BRT to PWM to take advantage of the $9/day differential. That could be a serious problem for which NNEPRA will probably want to ensure they have a solution prior to there being a problem. As things stand they already don't have enough parking at the PTC for everyday operations. I have seen cars parked on the grass (still apparently paying $3/day...) during school vacation weeks.

It's $4 a day now, and that's only if you present them with your train or bus ticket stub. Otherwise they charge you $6 a day, which would still be cheaper than PWM, but I suppose they could raise it to match the PWM rate if they wanted to deter PWM passengers from using the PTC lot.

ORB has parking meters during tourist season, so I can't imagine that being too useful for someone who's on a plane.

Although potentially not directly relevant to the Downeaster the eventual arrival of Southwest Airlines to the Portland International Jetport is likely relevant to the Portland Transportation Center one way or another.

The latest update from SWA indicates that they likely will not be starting service from PWM until 2013 at the earliest.

Southwest Airlines chose to begin service to CAK, DSM, and DAY to allow these markets to realize the benefits of the Southwest network, connecting them to large Southwest operations such as Chicago Midway and Denver.

"Southwest Airlines is thrilled to begin service to three markets that have for years desired to see canyon blue planes touch down on their runways," said Southwest Airlines Executive Vice President & Chief Commercial Officer and AirTran Airways President Bob Jordan. "Southwest will continue to serve these markets with exceptional Customer Service at a great value, with access to the broad Southwest network of destinations."

While the exact logic for the pace and selection of airports transitioning from the AirTran name to Southwest is somewhat opaque, service to/from Des Moines is clearly filling a small gap in their network. SWA also appears to be choosing a "go-slow" approach in order to ensure a successful transition. They appear to have little to lose from this perspective as AirTran does not appear to be losing money.

It looks like the topic of a Portland train station is of interest to the http://www.archboston.org community.

Specific discussion thread here: http://www.archboston.org/community/sho ... php?t=4311


Given the fluidity of the development at Thompson's Point and the (ever) growing passenger rail service in Maine, it would seem sensible to keep several options open. Portland is such a great city it really deserves a great station. Repurposing a historic building such as the former Maine Central Railroad General Office Building as suggested above could be just the answer; if not now perhaps at some point in the future.

Cannonball wrote:It looks like the topic of a Portland train station is of interest to the http://www.archboston.org community.

Specific discussion thread here: http://www.archboston.org/community/sho ... php?t=4311


Given the fluidity of the development at Thompson's Point and the (ever) growing passenger rail service in Maine, it would seem sensible to keep several options open. Portland is such a great city it really deserves a great station. Repurposing a historic building such as the former Maine Central Railroad General Office Building as suggested above could be just the answer; if not now perhaps at some point in the future.

I haven't seen or heard anything regarding changes to that project. Have you (or anyone else)?

gokeefe wrote:I haven't seen or heard anything regarding changes to that project. Have you (or anyone else)?

I have not heard or read anything recently either regarding the Forefront at Thompson's Point. I searched for a project website and couldn't find one which seems a little surprising for a project that was put on the fast-track (perhaps my search skills need improving). On the other hand, I am reminded of a couple of Opt/Ed pieces that raised some reasonable questions about the project.

One was in The Bollard: http://thebollard.com/2011/08/09/thats-our-dump/

The group behind this project is led by several members of the Red Claws’ ownership group, most notably former TD Banknorth executive Bill Ryan Sr. The Forefront is expected to cost upwards of $100 million. Its location makes construction particularly expensive. For example, the mucky marine clay beneath the site, euphemistically referred to as “blue goo,” will require that pilings be driven as far as 100 feet underground to support the structures above.
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...Ryan and company convinced city officials to give them a property tax break worth at least $31 million over the next 30 years. So though the Forefront is being planned and built by wealthy private investors, its profitability will depend on tens of millions of dollars of public money.
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The Forefront developers make an unconventional team for a project like this.
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Projects of a similar size and type have been proposed in Portland in the past, but none ever got off the drawing board.
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The convention center seems like the riskiest bet.
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The Brookings Institution has documented a steep drop in demand for convention facilities.

The other was in the Portland Press Herald: http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/lett ... 04-06.html

...My curiosity is raised when you can only get 3,500 seats in that [proposed] facility for the Red Claws. Is that really an improvement over the 2,880 seats in the Expo? There are 6,733 seats available at the Civic Center. Why not go there?
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When I checked, office space vacancies in Portland were more than 11 percent last year, the highest rate since commercial Realtors began tracking the sector. What is the vision for adding over 120,000 square feet to that list?

The point in The Bollard regarding profitability as a result of public financing is routine to many projects across the State of Maine. New initiatives in Maine cost a lot of money but can produce some very long term benefits. The costs to the municipalities represent their contribution to the project to help draw greater risk on the part of private sector investors. All of this is necessary not because Maine is competing with Boston but because Maine is competing with China.

Obviously, the Forefront isn't a case of direct competition with China, but I do think it, and the myriad other TIF districts in Portland, are in some way an admission-without-an-admission that Portland's property tax mil rate is out of whack with surrounding communities, once one considers the typically higher valuations in Portland. As a Portland property tax payer (albeit one who would support the city building a new train & bus station in the Suburban Propane lot on Thompson's Point if it was done well), this pains me.

markhb wrote:Obviously, the Forefront isn't a case of direct competition with China, but I do think it, and the myriad other TIF districts in Portland, are in some way an admission-without-an-admission that Portland's property tax mil rate is out of whack with surrounding communities, once one considers the typically higher valuations in Portland. As a Portland property tax payer (albeit one who would support the city building a new train & bus station in the Suburban Propane lot on Thompson's Point if it was done well), this pains me.

Perhaps true, however it also gives the City significantly greater control over development. After all, who would ever approve a TIF to tear down Union Station and build a strip mall today?

From today's Portland Press Herald, regarding the proposed development at Thompson's Point in Portland (location of the Portland Transportation Center):

The Portland Press Herald wrote:Developers are scaling back an ambitious $100 million project on Thompson's Point, trading Class A office space for the preservation of an old brick building and delaying plans for a sports arena.
. . .
The changes approved last week would allow the developers to reuse a brick building, rather than replacing it with a 120,000-square-foot office building.

The developers say they decided to keep the nearly 33,000-square-foot brick building in response to the wishes of a potential tenant.
. . .
The city is working to relocate Suburban Propane from its rail-side location on Thompson's Point to a city-owned parcel on Riverside Street. It's unclear how the relocation would affect the overall development plan.

The Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority, which operates the Amtrak Downeaster train, has identified that parcel as one of two potential sites for a new transportation center that would include train and bus operations. The authority has also drafted plans to build the center on the other side of the tracks.

Executive Director Patricia Quinn said no final decision on the location has been made, but the authority wants better connections from Thompson's Point to other areas of Portland, including the Old Port and waterfront.

Read more at: http://www.pressherald.com/news/thompso ... 06-25.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;