Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Yeah, I understand all the issues involved in running the LSL in and out of GCT ---- and I agree they are valid ----(i.e., restocking the diner, checked baggage, transfers to/from trains to other places ) but my opinion stands, to wit, that a Hell Gate - New Rochelle - Mott Haven detour is so utterly logistically horrible for all the reasons that I stated earlier, that it's beyond the realm of practical consideration.

Yet, it has occurred many times without much of an issue.

It looks like the final plan is starting to take shape (pending Metro-North issues and where 19's passengers and luggage will go) and it looks like some of the Keystones won't even make it to NWK.

I'm wondering if some of these service changes (at least concerning Amtrak) will survive this summer's work. What I mean is, will Amtrak find that some of these changes forced on them by emergency repair work actually add to operating efficiency? I.e. will ending some Keystones at 30th St or Newark, turning LD trains at DC, etc., actually improve operations?

Considering Penn Station was operating at well over 100% capacity with all the services, yes things will probably operate a little more naturally.


The issue standing is whether people will look for transportation elsewhere because convenience is more important to them. The fact is, what they are doing is actually the most realistic and operationally correct way to run things all the time. As great as dual mode service is into NYP for NJT, it created every bit the challenge that a strained system could not handle. As inconvenient as it may be, retracting service patterns to match those of the past is what is necessary.

Jeff Smith wrote:I'm wondering if some of these service changes (at least concerning Amtrak) will survive this summer's work. What I mean is, will Amtrak find that some of these changes forced on them by emergency repair work actually add to operating efficiency? I.e. will ending some Keystones at 30th St or Newark, turning LD trains at DC, etc., actually improve operations?

Some of the employees have wondered that as well, but consider some of the changes being made. It may be easy to cut a few regional and NJT commuter trains in the summer when there are a lot of people on vacation. However, some of this won't translate into a year round proposal.

WAS can barely handle what they are about to do with 19. They don't have the space or the S&I slots to turn multiple trains. One of the biggest things with 19/20 is where to put the passengers and hasn't been totally resolved. 10 or your top 15 city pairs for the Crescent involve stations north or WAS. Additionally, there is quite a bit of connecting traffic from Albany line. One of the issues is asking passengers to take a train to GCT, shuttle to Penn, take another train to WAS and transfer once again. When you put people through that, it will lead to a loss of revenue. Just think of the sleeping car loss of revenue for those that make the trip. The hope is the extra equipment can capture spill revenue.

The same goes for the Keystones and Albany service. The regional train barely have enough room for their passengers. Taking on Keystone passengers will be problematic in the long term. Additionally, both services are state supported. As may are fond of saying, one seats rides are always the best option where they exist. While I can see a couple of regional trains falling (the ones they are cutting are the usual suspects...the ones that always fall during a disruption), I don't see a future altering the service patterns for a long period of time, particularly when a lot of the business travel returns in full force.

Facebook page Unofficial Metro North: https://www.facebook.com/groups/20858103850/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; showing photos of an Empire set in Croton Harmon. Speculation in same about testing/modifying third rail shoes, and crew qualifications. Some speculating (perhaps tongue-in-cheek) that MN crews are qualifying up to Albany.

TCurtin wrote:Yeah, I understand all the issues involved in running the LSL in and out of GCT ---- and I agree they are valid ----(i.e., restocking the diner, checked baggage, transfers to/from trains to other places ) but my opinion stands, to wit, that a Hell Gate - New Rochelle - Mott Haven detour is so utterly logistically horrible for all the reasons that I stated earlier, that it's beyond the realm of practical consideration.

Any clue as to how much time that's going to add to the overall schedule?

Would Amtrak consider adding a Yonkers stop for the Lake Shore so passengers can transfer to MN?

What is the plan for weekend Keystone service? Making a trip in a few weeks and might want to reschedule now if it will be cancelled.

Yonkers is not a full service station,their's no Baggage service,not even a Quick-Trak machine for Amtrak tickets!

What the heck is wrong with NJT and this really tasteless message that they have posted on their website and have sent to their customers?

"NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because Amtrak, which owns the tracks our service relies upon, has neglected the maintenance of its critical infrastructure for years. For three-quarters of NJ TRANSIT rail customers travel patterns will not be modified, including the Trenton to New York Northeast Corridor Line. However, delays on all rail lines, except for the Atlantic City Rail line, are inevitable."

I ride both railroads, and Amtrak doesn't need more dishonest negative PR. I've complained to NJT customer service.

jamesinclair wrote:Excuse me but I would like a discount of 56 to 63 percent. Who do I talk to to get my trains running to Hoboken?

I expect I'll be purchasing an Orange to NYP monthly pass or thereabouts for the duration of the work. I'm not ordinarily a monthly pass holder, but at a discount, why not?

NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because Amtrak, which owns the tracks our service relies upon, has neglected the maintenance of its critical infrastructure for years. For three-quarters of NJ TRANSIT rail customers travel patterns will not be modified, including the Trenton to New York Northeast Corridor Line. However, delays on all rail lines, except for the Atlantic City Rail line, are inevitable."

How would you re-write that to make it honest?

Arlington wrote:

NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because Amtrak, which owns the tracks our service relies upon, has neglected the maintenance of its critical infrastructure for years. For three-quarters of NJ TRANSIT rail customers travel patterns will not be modified, including the Trenton to New York Northeast Corridor Line. However, delays on all rail lines, except for the Atlantic City Rail line, are inevitable."

How would you re-write that to make it honest?

For what it's worth, the traffic reporters on WFAN 660 AM and WINS 1010 AM have taken to saying something along the lines of "and as usual, thanks to Amtrak, 10-15 minute delays on NJ Transit into Penn Station."

Arlington wrote:

NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because Amtrak, which owns the tracks our service relies upon, has neglected the maintenance of its critical infrastructure for years. For three-quarters of NJ TRANSIT rail customers travel patterns will not be modified, including the Trenton to New York Northeast Corridor Line. However, delays on all rail lines, except for the Atlantic City Rail line, are inevitable."

How would you re-write that to make it honest?

NJ TRANSIT rail customers have been forced to deal with delays, derailments and unreliable service because of decades of underfunding of critical infrastructure by both states and the federal government. Delays on all rail lines leading to Hoboken and New York are inevitable, as is truncation of Midtown Direct service to Hoboken, and reliable funding mechanisms furnishing billions of dollars yearly are required to prevent them from remaining the norm.

It seems like they have a good handle on rail conditions through non-destructive testing. But ties are kinda guesswork.