Oh the humanity! (PanAm name change)

I know i just came back from Iraq so please bare with me.. how in the hell can Guliford take a name that is equivialnt to a US Landmark disgrace it with a joke of an airline "Pan Am 3" aka "Clipper Connection" operate no more then 12 727-200s and keep adding destinations and then pulling out of a place not even a year later with little notice!?! You better beleive that Juan T Trippe must be crying in his grave right about now that his chosen instrument has been deterirorated to this garbage! Isn't it enough that Guliford has disgraced their own name and now they are dragging a name that was the closest thing to "an official US Airline"

Of all the accomplishments that Pan am has done. The Boeing 707, the mighty 747, The first to add flight attendents, the first in the industry to fly 707s and 747s and now this!?! Every country in the world even US Soldiers who flew Pan am on R&R was familiar with the Blue globe and to this day remember Pan American World Airways..Now this. how can Guiliford live with itself knowing that they've tarnished this name. You can bet the aviation fans are pissed over this one.

I can only hope someone buys the name and logo from that crooked outfit Guliford and put the name to rest once and for all or uses it to give it to the Pan Am Museum being established in Key West as a reminder of their once glorious past.

If one only knew what David Fink's true intentions were. He had 0 intrest in running an airline right or preserving a once respected name.

The Pan Am name and logo should be on a 747 or on the facade of an aviation museum not on some side of a poor excuse of a railroad!

Wow! That was Beautiful!

Oh come on! When you have family who were in the industry and working with a leader like Pan Am as long as 15 even 20 yrs it gets to you. Just imagine if Waste Managment wanted to buy the name and logos of the New York Central, Central Railroad of New Jersey or even Lackawanna and have those logos, colors and names on the dumpsters and old beat up garbage trucks. Now that would piss alot of railfans and ex employees off.

NJTRailfan wrote:Oh come on! When you have family who were in the industry and working with a leader like Pan Am as long as 15 even 20 yrs it gets to you. Just imagine if Waste Managment wanted to buy the name and logos of the New York Central or even Lackawanna and have those logos and names on the dumpsters and old beat up garbage trucks. Now that would piss alot of railfans and ex employees off.

I think it is a very good match. I flew Pan Am in the 1980's and it was the
"pits". Absolutely the worst trip ever. Only flew one way, got my ticket
changed at the other end of the trip and flew back on a different carrier.
Pan Am was the Penn Central of the airline industry at the time I used it.
Noel Weaver

noel Weaver, I do understand. They did take a bad dive after they sold off their London Heathrow routes in 1990 or 1991. But they were great for the time I flew them over a dozen times from JFK-London Heathrow and JFK-Delhi India with the stop at London. What killed them was Pan Am 103 and the bad management that set them up for failure by cutting corners on security such as skipping hand searches on unaccomapnied bags out of London or having show dogs bought cheap from a local kennel instead of bomb sniffing german sheppards as they promised.

But it's too bad the managment wasn't ousted rather then the enitre airline and put so many hard working dedicated Americans (in the tens of thousands) out of work. without that airlien you better beleive that there would be no 707s or 747s, ground radar, inflight service or all the things that we take advantage of today thanks in part to Pan Am and their pioneering the industry in part to Juan T Trippe.

NJTRailfan wrote:noel Weaver, I do understand. They did take a bad dive after they sold off their London Heathrow routes in 1990 or 1991. But they were great for the time I flew them over a dozen times from JFK-London Heathrow and JFK-Delhi India with the stop at London. What killed them was Pan Am 103 and the bad management that set them up for failure by cutting corners on security such as skipping hand searches on unaccomapnied bags out of London or having show dogs bought cheap from a local kennel instead of bomb sniffing german sheppards as they promised.

But it's too bad the managment wasn't ousted rather then the enitre airline and put so many hard working dedicated Americans (in the tens of thousands) out of work. without that airlien you better beleive that there would be no 707s or 747s, ground radar, inflight service or all the things that we take advantage of today thanks in part to Pan Am and their pioneering the industry in part to Juan T Trippe.

I don't believe for one minute that any of the above steps of progress in
the airline industry would have taken place if it were not for Pan Am. Not
for one minute.
My experience with them dates back to 1984 when I was traveling from
New York to San Francisco and was advised by a trusted friend to take
Pan Am so I did. Got to JFK airport in plenty of time and upon arrival saw
two baggage agents go to fisti cuffs with lots of yelling, their security
people gave me an awlful time with a scanner packed in my carry on so I
told them to call for a supervisor who told them that the scanner was OK
and I had already removed the batteries from it and sealed it off. Got to
the gate and saw one engine apart and a lot of mechanical people
tinkering with it. We finally got on the plane and left a little bit behind
schedule. We got out over Pittsburgh about an hour into the trip when the
pilot came on the intercome and gave us bad news that we had lost an
engine and were returning to NY. We went out over the water and
dumped fuel and landed with lots of fire engines and emergency vehicles
around the area, kind of scary at best. They kept us on the plane for
quite some time and would tell us nothing. A lot of people complained and
it finally reached a point where we were allowed off the plane and into the
terminal. I looked out the window and saw the mechanics again tinkering
with that same engine. I gave a lot of thought as to whether I would
continue this trip at this point but after a long delay, we finally re-boarded
the same plane and eventually took off. As a token of their appreciation,
they gave us free use of the movie head sets, big deal we were about six
plus hours behind schedule at this point and I for one was uncertain as to
what we could expect next. After leaving, we traveled without further
incident to San Francisco but we were good and late in arrival and I had to
wait at the airport for about an hour for my luggage.
At San Francisco, I went to the city ticket office for United Airlines and was
able to get my return changed to a pretty decent non-stop flight from
San Francisco to NY which had a brand new 767 for equipment and got
treated much better than on the way out on Pan Am.
I think the original Pan Am flight left New York with an obvious mechanical
problem that could have been taken care of before departure but for some
reason was not. Penn Central sent trains out on a "wing and a prayer"
and in my case, Pan Am sent my flight out on a "wing and a prayer" too.
I shed absolutely no tears when Pan Am flew their last flight, not for the
company and not for the employees either because most of the
employees whom I encountered on my trip were not very pleasant either.
I don't think Guilford can bring any further dis-credit to the Pan Am name
and in fact, they have an opportunity to help it.
Noel Weaver

"I don't think Guilford can bring any further dis-credit to the Pan Am name" We'll see about that, sir!

I don't know much about Pan AM, but I can say I remember the Scotland incident and looking at those pictures of the Pan AM rail cars derailed in the water brought back some horrible memories.

I don't know why they couldn't have come up with a new bright positive trend setting name for guilford, it shows a total lack of insight and leadership, just my two cents.

Hey Merry Christmas..wait is that still okay to say in the USA? ahhh...sure it is!! Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to all of you and Best wishes for the New Year

With Pan Am I do beleive the management was definantly to blame. for example spent way too much money on National Airlines when they could've had their own domestic routes after de reg took full effect and the much hated Civil Aeronautics Board was disbanded. As well as them buying too many 747-100s. They bought 25 of those gas guzzlers two years before the reccession and the fuel crises hit. The airliens that bought 15 and under of the 747s faired it out alot better compared to Pan Am. But the biggest white elephant is that monstrocity standing near Grand Central Terminal on Park Ave. They built a nearly 60 story building which 2/3rds they couldn't fill (only 10-15 floors of the Pan Am Building were filled by the airline) despite all the offers PA made to their contracting companies (cheap rents,etc)they still couldn't fill it until Met Life came in and not only filled all the empty floors but outright bought it and that made the airline a tenant in the building that they paid to plan/build that had the "Pan Am" name and the globe on it.

The selling of the Pacific Routes to United rather then the Atlantic Routes in the mid 1980s just before terrorism on the airlinesand airports took full hold in Europe was also a major factor and the airline's inept responce to it.

The hatred you have for the airline is what I have for Guiliford because they can't even run the railroad right under the current name let alone a historic aviation name under the world famous blue globe.

Is this going somewhere? Because no matter how much you hate it, the railroad ain't changin' it's name.

Let's move on to comething constructive?

-otto-

CN9634 wrote:Wow! That was Beautiful!

Seconded