NYSW Passenger Service Restoration

2005Vdub wrote:nice letter. maybe the politicians will read it and actually use there brain and do something good.

I found that the recently elected Vernon politicians are somewhat more open to looking at the options. For example, they're looking at putting in tram service from what used to be a campground on Hamburg Mountain to the top of one of the ski lifts at Mountain Creek and to Hidden Valley as well. That in itself should help reduce traffic. They're also putting in a main street business district, figuring out a new alternative plan for the old Legends Playboy mansion and redesignating some of the older commercial areas as redevelopment areas. They know that it's all about efficient and controlled growth instead of an explosion, which is a good thing.

The fact that they are looking at transit alternatives now is good. They just need to be steered into looking at the right transit alternatives. Hopefully if people read my letter, others will follow in favoring rail service.

I am going to chime in where IC locked out that new thread. I may repeat some things I said before (elsewhere).

For starters let the pax service on the 'Q' terminate/originate at Butler. You can simply 'fast cycle' some sets between there and Secaucus Transfer if time and equipment constraints exist. Forget Hoboken (for now).

Forget about a terminous, yard, and station in Sparta. For Phase II go to Vernon. I can verify 1st hand the folks there want the train and they want it on weekends and at odd hours too. Hell if I lived up in those parts I would get 'cabin fever'.

In the past I have proposed extending all the way to Middletown or Port Jervis but after further consideration think it is not practical.

NJT talkin' Sparta is basically smoke, IMO.

Let's be realistic and see the reality of the matter.

How about storing trainsets in Butler and originating Phase 1 in Newfoundland?Start out with maybe 2 0r 3 rush hour trains in each direction.Stagger them in a 1/2 to 45 minute basis from say starting 5:30 AM in the morning to beginning in the neighborhood of 5:00 PM on the
evening return.

We definitely want train service. Reasons are:

1. Commuting on 23 is getting worse and worse. Alternate ways through New York State are also starting to see some crowds.
2. Ski season, most of Vernon is jammed.
3. Easier access to New York City and vicinity.

Just an FYI, you'd think that with where Vernon is, it's a boring town...but truth is, Vernon is the next boom town. Main Street is being constructed and will be complete by 2007 which will bring a lot of business and commerce. Hidden Valley is slated for redevelopment. And there's "The Village" going up at Mountain Creek in which phase 1 is almost complete and will consist of a hotel, condos and a mini mall.

It's not boring out here by far and it's only gonna continue to get more interesting.

BlockLine_4111 wrote:I am going to chime in where IC locked out that new thread. I may repeat some things I said before (elsewhere).

For starters let the pax service on the 'Q' terminate/originate at Butler. You can simply 'fast cycle' some sets between there and Secaucus Transfer if time and equipment constraints exist. Forget Hoboken (for now).

Forget about a terminous, yard, and station in Sparta. For Phase II go to Vernon. I can verify 1st hand the folks there want the train and they want it on weekends and at odd hours too. Hell if I lived up in those parts I would get 'cabin fever'.

In the past I have proposed extending all the way to Middletown or Port Jervis but after further consideration think it is not practical.

NJT talkin' Sparta is basically smoke, IMO.

Let's be realistic and see the reality of the matter.

I tend to agree, personally. Terminating in Butler is not only unfeasible, it also doesn't serve enough of the upper NJ 23 corridor, not to mention that there is zero parking room in Butler. If NJT has already secured yard space in Hardyston Township, then let them not release that too quickly.

I was assuming that Butler yard (what ever remains of it) had capacity for 2-4 short sets and parking for 25 or so automobiles. Maybe I was incorrect.

They need to also create a version of Denver's Ski Train (to Winter Park) and run that from Hoboken to Vernon. May be a big hit with the yuppies from Hoboken and JC. Toss in a parlor car and cigar bar to boot.

Twenty-five automobiles may as well be zero, when you look at what's on route 23 in the AM and PM. Access between Butler's station and NJ 23 is via quite narrow local streets that would easily get immobilized.

It's a pity that the NYSW allowed its main line west of Sparta to be cannibalized, too; it would be beneficial to the Poconos area to have a railroad going through Tannersville PA again, especially to serve Camelback/CamelBeach and Great Wolf Lodge...

Irish Chieftain wrote: It's a pity that the NYSW allowed its main line west of Sparta to be cannibalized, too; it would be beneficial to the Poconos area to have a railroad going through Tannersville PA again, especially to serve Camelback/CamelBeach and Great Wolf Lodge...

I concur 100%, taping into the youthful, affluent Hoboken/JC market of today with an expedient train offering a magnitude of services (e.g. cigar bar, etc) would go over well IMO.

These days any abandoned rail that can be activated to provide service in Sussex County will have a profound effect on multiple highways going through there.

The problem is a lot of the rail goes north. Some abandoned rail lines intersect with NYSW but then terminate otherwise. It'll be interesting to see once the NYSW line gets reactivated (and I know it will get reactivated) what will happen. Will NIMBYism prevail or will sensible people such as Vernonites rise up and say enough is enough...

At least with the Lackawana Cuttoff and the NYSW, there's a good chance for both the Northern and Southern portions of Sussex County to get a viable train service. My hope is that by activating service along the abandoned row leading up to the Lackawana Cutoff including the one station in Sussex County, that this will be proof enough that the area needs train service.

Irish Chieftain wrote:Twenty-five automobiles may as well be zero, when you look at what's on route 23 in the AM and PM. Access between Butler's station and NJ 23 is via quite narrow local streets that would easily get immobilized.

It's a pity that the NYSW allowed its main line west of Sparta to be cannibalized, too; it would be beneficial to the Poconos area to have a railroad going through Tannersville PA again, especially to serve Camelback/CamelBeach and Great Wolf Lodge...

They could do a really quick and dirty link by running trains just to Paterson and then having people transfer to a Main Line train in Paterson. (not sure how many would want to transfer in Paterson) but it will allow for even fewer sets to be on the actual NYS&W line.

You could do stops at:
Wortendyke
Wyckoff
Oakland (maybe even a new stop in between in Franklin Lakes)
Pompton Lakes
Butler

You would probably only need 3 trainsets to provide that service as a startup.

The Main Line is probably going to have expanded service once the new CVI's and more equipment is freed up. You could add a few cars to all the Main Line trains and you'd be able to provide new service for a relatively low cost.

Eventually you'd probably have a transfer station at Hawthorne build when the NYS&W was a full operational line and the lower NYS&W was made into DMU / LRT terminating at Hawthorne.

Also you would eventually probably add stops at the old Midland Park station (Godwinville), add a Route 23 Park and Ride, Newfoundland, Stockholm and possibly further.

Eventually you'd probably have a transfer station at Hawthorne build when the NYS&W was a full operational line and the lower NYS&W was made into DMU / LRT terminating at Hawthorne.

No such thing's going to happen, at least not as LRT. And the Bergen Cross-County service was to terminate in Paterson, not Hawthorne (where the NYSW station has a single track running alongside, and no terminal space).

Transferring at Paterson would mean fewer trains on the Main Line, not the NYSW. And since the point of running on the Main Line was to have people get to Secaucus to transfer, that means a three-seat ride.

Irish Chieftain wrote:

Eventually you'd probably have a transfer station at Hawthorne build when the NYS&W was a full operational line and the lower NYS&W was made into DMU / LRT terminating at Hawthorne.

No such thing's going to happen, at least not as LRT. And the Bergen Cross-County service was to terminate in Paterson, not Hawthorne (where the NYSW station has a single track running alongside, and no terminal space).

Transferring at Paterson would mean fewer trains on the Main Line, not the NYSW. And since the point of running on the Main Line was to have people get to Secaucus to transfer, that means a three-seat ride.

Bergen-Passiac LRT/DMU has always been planned to Hawthorne. I think you are confusing the Newark Subway Extension to Paterson with the Bergen-Passiac NYS&W LRT project.

I only said transfer at Paterson since it would be shorter and require fewer trainsets. Running to Secaucus would mean they'd probably need 5 trainsets at least.

I think you are confusing the Newark Subway Extension to Paterson with the Bergen-Passiac NYS&W LRT project

Nope. That's why I said Bergen Cross-County, which was never to go to Hawthorne at any time—it always had Paterson as its terminus. As LRT, that's dead and never was alive; there's no way the NYSW would stand for LRT on its ROW, especially were it to obstruct its operations.

As far as the Erie Newark Branch (speculation for NCS connection existed when HBLRT sparked the brief LRT frenzy, but the FRA took the wind out of those sails back in 1999), the old terminal space is still in Paterson station sitting idle.

I wasn't talking of the Bergen Cross-County, that's been dead for almost 4 years. The project NJT is still actively pursuing is the Bergen-Passaic project running from Hawthorne to Hackensack (and likely to at least Tonelle Ave.) There hasn't been much public talk but if what I've heard is correct that project is very alive and also a candidate for DMU service. How the final alignment past Hackensack works depends really on if the Meadowlands connector is built.

As for the NCS I think you'll end up seeing that done by 2020. I don't think it is immediate but I think it will happen eventually.

Bergen-Passaic = Bergen Cross-County, in DMU format. Noticed Representative Bill Pascrell's website where it's mentioned that it would use the NYSW main. It's presumptuous to conclude that it would terminate in Hawthorne, no matter what all the sources happen to be saying right now. Absurd to terminate it in either Hackensack or Ridgefield, as well; like the Northern Branch DMU, the terminus ought to be Hoboken.

Also have to laugh at the news sources that still claim that the DMU is a "new type of train" when it's been around since the middle of the 20th century, even earlier when you count Doodlebugs converted to diesel...