North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Carolinian Service

gprimr1 wrote:I've heard this technique is used on the Canadian trains, which two coaches being for people remaining inside the US and 2 coaches for people going through to Canada.

Yes...the first 2 Cars going to the border are for this purpose.

Obviously they do this also the Empire Builder for Portland and Seattle passengers where they split the train in Spokane.

I was a little surprised that they had kept one coach empty all the way from Charlotte to Richmond.

In any station with low platforms that Amfleets visit, the train crew must manually remove the metal plate that covers the stars (the metal plate allows boarding at high platforms).

Having fewer open coaches means fewer doors which must be manually opened.

Also, I believe Amtrak Conductors are responsible for passengers exiting the train at the approperiate location, especially outside the NEC were there may not be anouther train until the next day, so having everyone in one coach makes life easier.

The northbound Carolinian, #80, usually operates as follows out of CLT as far as RMT:

Baggage
Business Class
Cafe-Dinette
Amfleet- usually WAS and north passengers
Amfleet- Usually NC and VA passengers
Amfleet- overflow, usually NC and VA riders
Amfleet, usually left empty so that there are seats, with windows in Richmond.

Richmond is a pretty heavy boarding each day, espacially Fridays and Saturdays.

After Petersburg, passenegers are usually directed to any coach with seats, again holding open the Richmond car if possible. Of course, the conductor has a mainfest that is printed for him in Raleigh, (about 11:30 AM) so he usually knows what he has and expects, and may make modifications to this pattern to acomodate groups, which are quite popular on 79/80.

At intermediate stops between CLT and RMT, the crew will only open the doors between the 1st and 2nd coaches so that the can direct people in the right direction. (Business class opens too at the cafe car end.

On #79, coming south, I have never seen any sort of seating pattern by destination- they are all over the train.

Matthewsaggie
NC Train Host - Carolinian

Thanks very much for a very helpful response, Matthewsaggie. It really helps having space held for Richmond boardings, I just didn't know whether it was a routine practice.

matthewsaggie wrote:On #79, coming south, I have never seen any sort of seating pattern by destination- they are all over the train.

Monthly passes/commuters use #79 on some portions of the NEC since it has an early morning departure time from NYP....usually there are so many pax boarding at one time from different stairways...the conductors probably lack time & resources to sort passengers.

As an aside however, on the combined Cardinal from Philly, those of us headed to Chicago boarded the train from a different stairway than the DC passengers...but I believe a cafe car separated the trains.

A few years back I had occassion to visit Charlotte, North Carolina. I found the Carolinian a fantastically practical way to get from Northern New Jersey to Charlotte. I drove to Metro Park which has a secure long term parking lot that is reasonable priced. I parked my car and hopped on the Carolinian to Charlotte. On the way home I hopped in my car from the train and drove home.

Recently I wanted to repeat this experience and to my shock the Carolinian no longer stops at Metro Park. I would have to board the train at either Newark or Trenton. Neither station provides secure reasonably priced long term parking. Instead of arriving at Metro Park at a little before 8:00 AM to catch the Carolinian I would have to be there at 7:38 AM for a local train and I would have to change at Trenton. There is no guaranteed connection. If the regional train runs late I would have to rent a hotel in Trenton and spend the night. For a weekend trip this would mean the entire trip would have to be cancelled and I would eat the tickets and hotel reservations in Charlotte.

I've looked at all of the possible scenarios and I have come to the conclusion that without the Metro Park stop the only way to get to Charlotte from Northern New Jersey is to fly or drive.

WOW, there's a bit of an over-reaction.

New Jersey Transit trains will take you from Metropark to Trenton almost any time you want. For dirt cheap, too, in my opinion. You have many, many trains to choose from. If they run insanely late and you miss the connection, why in the world would you have to stay in a hotel? Just get on the next train north (half hour wait?) and go home.

I make a 7:13am NJT from Metropark to Trenton getting to Trenton at 7:55.

I make a 6:55am NJT going to NWK.

Actually there is a bit of a point here. Eliminating stops in densely populated areas that are also easy to get to and have inexpensive parking detract from the advantage of the train, which unlike air travel has the capability to take you from point to point. Eliminating the stop is one thing but to not guarantee a connection at PHL or WAS is just bad business.

There is not frequent NJT service either on the weekend to connect. The perfect connecting train would be the 656 arriving TRE at 739, but if you cant trust the Amtrak Regional to get you there on time then you probably shouldn't trust only a 1/2 hour NJT connection either. This means taking the train before which leaves at 556am leaving you 1.5 hours at TRE. Going the other way to NWK isn't any better leaving at 547am. You're adding 2 hours to an already long trip along with the inconvenience of a transfer.

When you are dealing with the connections, does the Carolinian count as an NEC or LD train. Is a 2 hour minimum time necessary with LD trains originating on the NEC?

Regional train 131 looks to have about 20-30 minutes between it's arrival at Trenton and the Carolinian's Departure. With 131 originating at NYP, could Amtrak use this train to accommodate passengers? Or, if necessary, use Phily as the change point.

skitraindance wrote:A few years back I had occassion to visit Charlotte, North Carolina. I found the Carolinian a fantastically practical way to get from Northern New Jersey to Charlotte. I drove to Metro Park which has a secure long term parking lot that is reasonable priced. I parked my car and hopped on the Carolinian to Charlotte. On the way home I hopped in my car from the train and drove home.

(moderator snippage, original post is just a quick scroll up

I've looked at all of the possible scenarios and I have come to the conclusion that without the Metro Park stop the only way to get to Charlotte from Northern New Jersey is to fly or drive.

I get the impression that you do not make this trip too often. I think it is most practical to take an NJT train to Trenton to make your connection. If there is a problem with the NEC, most likely all of the trains will be delayed and if you are not comfortable with a 20 or 30 minute connection then I would simply take the next earlier train to Trenton for the Amtrak connection.

I have always stated that Amtrak should not be stopping at most suburban stations that have good commuter trains that can make the connections and I think Metro Park is an example of this although there are others too.

New Rochelle, Bridgeport, Yonkers and probably Croton Harmon are some examples in suburban territory which have very frequent suburban
service and Amtrak should in most cases not stop at these stations. The only exception that I could justify would be maybe New Rochelle for a couple of westbound trains in the morning and eastbound trains in the evening for people in Westchester County who want to travel south of New York.

Noel Weaver

Actually, I can live with the 20 minute layup at Trenton on the way down, except that I really hate having to handle my luggage twice. If your commuting to work changing trains isn't bad but when you're traveling with suitcases it's a real pain.

Coming back is another story. The Carolinian runs a minimum of 1 hour late to as much as 4 hours late. Coming back on Sunday I can arrive at Trenton any time between 8:00 PM and 12:00 midnight, usually around 10:00 PM By then NJT service is down to hourly. Sitting in Trenton at that hour of the night for up to an hour for a connecting train is not my hour of fun. At this point all you want to do is get home ASAP.

Have you thought of asking a friend to drop you off and pick you up? I do this whether I'm flying or taking the train, especially on leisure trips. It saves parking $$$.

I have always stated that Amtrak should not be stopping at most suburban stations that have good commuter trains that can make the connections and I think Metro Park is an example of this although there are others too.

New Rochelle, Bridgeport, Yonkers and probably Croton Harmon are some examples in suburban territory which have very frequent suburban
service and Amtrak should in most cases not stop at these stations. The only exception that I could justify would be maybe New Rochelle for a couple of westbound trains in the morning and eastbound trains in the evening for people in Westchester County who want to travel south of New York.

Metro Park is the only station in New Jersey that has inexpensive, safe, long term parking. It is also extremely easy to get to being right off the Garden State Parkway.

It's the only station that I would add as a stop on long distance trains. Anyon from Northern New Jersey can easily reach this station and use AMTRAK.

The problem with commuter rail stops to connect with AMTRAK is usually the parking is residents only or monthly rates. There is no long term parking at any commuter staion I know except Metro Park.

Its not much of a problem to get somebody to drop you off at an AMTRAK station but being picked up is another story. The Carolinian usually doesn't arrive before 10:00 PM and maybe as late as midnight. That requires somebody who really owes you.