NJT Permit Troubles Today (a report)

njt4172 wrote:MNCRR Junk?? Thought most of the junk was stored or awaiting disposition?? How many Comet I's are in the yard??

Steve

Except for one outfit of C5s, everything tonight was Comet Is. No MNCR though, thankfully!

JackieS wrote:Hi!

I'm new here in the forum, but I regularly ride through the Bound Brook station and saw you. I'll have you know that one guy who got on the train (about 3:05 PM, eastbound) was going crazy about you. You had a backpack on, right? The conductor assured him the engineer would handle it and said you told him you had a permit.

I've been taking shots on the RVL and even Newark Penn since last autumn when I got a digital camera. The conductors and engineers on my regular route have all seen my camera - sometimes they're even in my shots. No one has ever said a word about it to me other than asking me what I've shot today. Some of the best shots I've ever taken have been of the lights/track/trains at the Plainfield Train Station. In a year of commuting there, I've never seen an NJ Transit cop, though.

I think I remember seeing you and your shot at Plainfeild on a website somewhere. Could be mistaken though. And welcome Jackie!

JackieS wrote:Hi!

I'm new here in the forum, but I regularly ride through the Bound Brook station and saw you. I'll have you know that one guy who got on the train (about 3:05 PM, eastbound) was going crazy about you. You had a backpack on, right? The conductor assured him the engineer would handle it and said you told him you had a permit.

Yeah, I saw that guy...he started giving me the fish eye as soon as I got in position to film the train arriving. I figured I'd let the conductor know I had a permit out of courtesy in case the engineer was concerned.

Amazing that I went through all that, only to see fans filming and/or photographing my own trains at the same spot as I roll by on the Lehigh Line....

Joe

Jersey_Mike wrote:

but suggested that next time to contact them first before filming so they would know that I (or anyone else) was there

I wouldn't. The more trouble and hassle you cause them then the more they will either become apathetic or start to regret the whole photo ban nonsense in the first place. They think they can enforce a photo ban? Well let's prove them wrong by simply overwhelming their ability to respond. Eventually they'll throw in the towel when REAL crimes start becoming a problem.

I wouldn't do it either, but simply for logistical reasons. For starters, I use the train to get to most of my favorite spots, so getting to any local police station easily is tough, especially since I don't know where any of them are. And I'm sure not going to carry phone numbers for the many jurisdictions in my region alone.

Well, when I come back in a few years for the PL42ACs and the bilevels, we'll see what happens!

Joe

Jersey_Mike wrote:The more trouble and hassle you cause them then the more they will either become apathetic or start to regret the whole photo ban nonsense in the first place

Or the more aggressive they will become. Try it and see what happens.

Irish Chieftain wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:The more trouble and hassle you cause them then the more they will either become apathetic or start to regret the whole photo ban nonsense in the first place

Or the more aggressive they will become. Try it and see what happens.

It depends on the person. Some may be apathetic to your cause and some won't give a hooting... well, you know.

yeah, yesterday I got questioned by NJTPD for the first time for photographing and the guy was really nice about it. He also said I didnt have to delete the photos on my camera (I'm digital).

He did seem to take it seriously though that I was photographing because numerous engineers where reporting me, but when he looked through what was on my camera he said "Nothing here looks like much of a danger".

I guess it depends on the person. I got a nice guy this time, who knows who I'll run into next time.

sullivan1985 wrote:yeah, yesterday I got questioned by NJTPD for the first time for photographing and the guy was really nice about it. He also said I didnt have to delete the photos on my camera (I'm digital).

He did seem to take it seriously though that I was photographing because numerous engineers where reporting me, but when he looked through what was on my camera he said "Nothing here looks like much of a danger".

I guess it depends on the person. I got a nice guy this time, who knows who I'll run into next time.

Did you have a Permit with you? Makes me wonder if I should try getting some NJT when i'm down there, I shoot slide film, can't really take it out and show them. How Suspicious can a red headed teen from Maine be any way?

-Justin Franz

Check out the July issue of Railpace Newsmagazine. Their editorial on page 3 takes NJT to task for their hostile attitude to railfans. They also explain that NJT has so far failed to comply with their request for a copy of their photo-policy regulations.

Glad I got a lot of photos back in the 1980's & 90's before all this stuff got so deep. Nowadays, I usually just keep the camera in my pocket, in case I see something really exceptional.

A long family friend of ours, Bob Lewis -- the publisher of Railway Age from the 50s until his retirement in the early 70s -- used to talk about security around the Pittsburgh area steel carrying railroads in World War II. There were several bridges where guards were posted 24 hours a day, and they shot traspassers on sight. Throughout the war there were apparently a dozen or so hobos who couldn't read the warning signs that were set at a quarter mile back who were fired upon.

So there have/has been period(s) of paranoia and security to ultimate degrees in our country around railroads before. Let's hope that there is a tomorrow where we can all return to some forms of calm.

In the late 50s when I was able to ride a lot of locomotives on the DL&W as a teenager, some of the older crews talked about a German film crew that asked for permission and received it to film the entire DL&W mainline from the head end of a train. They rode westbound Lackawanna Limited from Hoboken to Buffalo filming the entire route -- all eight hours. This was 1937 or 38. Those guys were planning ahead, and the U.S. was quite naive about the threat of WW II at that time.

pdman wrote:A long family friend of ours, Bob Lewis -- the publisher of Railway Age from the 50s until his retirement in the early 70s -- used to talk about security around the Pittsburgh area steel carrying railroads in World War II. There were several bridges where guards were posted 24 hours a day, and they shot traspassers on sight. Throughout the war there were apparently a dozen or so hobos who couldn't read the warning signs that were set at a quarter mile back who were fired upon.

So there have/has been period(s) of paranoia and security to ultimate degrees in our country around railroads before. Let's hope that there is a tomorrow where we can all return to some forms of calm.

It's scary that something like that could happen again and happened not that long ago. We think something like this could never happen again but you never can be sure.

More historical insights. Up until the late 1950s it was unlawful to photograph in the NYC subways. This was a hold over from World War II.

In the early 80s an academic colleague of mine was doing a doctoral dissertation on the history of railroad police forces. Some anecdotes that I remember: N&W police were particularly harsh. No doubt rightfully so from World War II coal carrying concerns. Too, the Nickle Plate were reputed to shoot hobos in yards and beat them up. The NYC were seen as the one of the most professional and effective throughout the Class I railroads all the way up into the Conrail days (one of the reasons why, no doubt, the NYC police prevailed in the Penn Central merger).

I will try to track down the guy who was doing this research to see if he ever completed the dissertation. He was a cross between a business major and a history one.

I have been told on good authority that the now-gone CNJ mainline bridge over Newark Bay between Bayonne and E'port was guarded by soldiers during WWII. No recollection of shots fired though. The protocol was a challenge by the soldier: "Halt, who goes there?" It was then important for the challenged person to halt and reply, something like "A signal maintainer for the CNJ." The soldier would then shout "advance and be recognized" etc.

As an aside, a few days after 911 I happened to drive by the Oyster Creek nuclear generating station which was guarded by troops. I noted a local police car turn in and stop at the closed chainlink plant gates. When the uniformed policeman got out to speak with the soldiers the soldiers approached their side of the gate with theie M16 rifles lowered towards the cop. Took no chances to ensure he was a genuine police officer. Must have been some experiece for the policeman.