Newark Erie branch/ DL&W connection.

I know there was a re-alignment where the two met near the present day Parkway in Paterson/Clifton but what did it look like or what was it like before? Did it cross on a diamond? Over/Under? And did it go down that industrial street to connect to the yard in Paterson? Maps/Pics would be great! Thanks. Also... What was the grade like for the DL&W going around Garrett mountain??

The Erie ducked under the Lackawanna there. If you drive down Kuller Rd., the bridge is still there and you can see it right from the road.

Before the Erie and Lackawanna merger, where, if at all, did the Erie Newark Branch interchange with the DL&W in that area? or did the DL&W only have its freight spur paralleling the Erie Newark into Paterson (Yard behind St. Josephs and Green St.) , but not connecting?

I lived on Concord St right off of Broad St. Before the parkway was built I can remember steam running by, later the diesels... They were just begining to lay on the power as they passed my house. That was still about a mile before it would wrap around Garret Mt. It was a busy road....

I used to count the cars.... 100 most of the time.... usually E8ABAs pulling the consist.

Once the Parkway came in... I was right near the Broad St entrance it was nightly drag races for the straight run to the Rt 3 exit. No more trains. I don't know much about how the track was in Paterson, but I would think the track would have been parrallel. I remember a track beyond the Lackawanna. I think that was the one heading into Paterson toward St Joe's.

I moved out around summer 1962.

Phil

Spent summer of 1960 as mascot on the Boonton drill(DL&W)in cab of whatever switcher assigned that day,usually SW-8.After working the Passaic freight house would go west to Paterson Jct./yard to run around train and proceed back on eastbound side to work industries through Clifton/Passaic/Clifton(Delawanna) where it would crossover and run w/b to Passaic frt. hs. again.If memory serves there was a connection between Erie Nwk. Br./DL&W pat. Br. beyond Hazel St. over pass where both R.O.W.s came close.Todays trackage passes on old DL&W R.O.W. under Hazel St.(Erie had it's own a 100 yds.away where Kuller Rd. ends).I recall that the new "main" connection was being built alongside yard tracks then as well.

From aerials of the 1950s, seems like no connection until after the merger and abandonment of much of the DL&W spur into Paterson, where there was a connecting track shown on 1966 map just East of Pacific.

I also noticed on the aerial views of 1953 and 1954 what appears to be a turntable in the DL&W yard at roughly N 40.88724 W 74.16750. Was there such at one time?

Trains magazine Feb. 2008 article "Kool-Aid,creosote, and the Lackawanna" might be of interest,1916 map of yard and vintage pics.

A couple of follow-up comments:

In 1963, the E-L moved its Main Line out of downtown Passaic. In preparing for this move, the Newark Branch track, which crossed Getty Av. & Main St. at grade, was elevated to allow for greater train frequency without disrupting traffic. The Lackawanna freight branch to Paterson was sufficiently distant from the Newark Branch track so that the elevated track could be constructed without disrupting freight traffic. During the period of construction, eastbound Newark Branch trains were backed down the Lackawanna freight branch to just (timetable) west of Main St. Newark Branch passengers were bused from the Erie Paterson Market St. station to this temporary South Paterson station.

From 1963 to 1966, trains ran via the Lackawanna Boonton Line and either ran via the Lackawanna Paterson Marshall St. station and around Garrett Mountain to Mountain View and on, or via South Paterson to connect with the Erie Main Line (timetable) east of the Erie Paterson Market St. station. I'm quite sure that a short remnant of the Lackawanna Boonton Line around Garrett Mountain still exists as a small industrial spur (timetable) east of the now-abandoned South Paterson station, accessed by a hand-thrown switch.

I believe that the connection of the Newark Branch where it crossed the Lackawanna Boonton line predated 1963. I was a student at Eastern Christian in North Haledon from 1962-1966, and I recall driving on Kuller Rd. when I was a freshman in 1962, and possibly earlier. It is very likely that the E-L was hungry for cash, and sold the old Newark Branch right-of-way to the city for the construction of Kuller Rd.

Upon completion of the new connection between the Erie Main Line and the Lackawanna Boonton Line, Newark Branch trains ran through Paterson to Waldwick, no longer terminating at the Erie Paterson station "lower level," which still was above street level. I don't recall when they were removed, but the lower level tracks were gone a number of years ago.

Any freight interchange likely was done at Hoboken/Jersey City.

erie910 wrote:In 1963, the E-L moved its Main Line out of downtown Passaic. In preparing for this move, the Newark Branch track, which crossed Getty Av. & Main St. at grade, was elevated to allow for greater train frequency without disrupting traffic. The Lackawanna freight branch to Paterson was sufficiently distant from the Newark Branch track so that the elevated track could be constructed without disrupting freight traffic. During the period of construction, eastbound Newark Branch trains were backed down the Lackawanna freight branch to just (timetable) west of Main St. Newark Branch passengers were bused from the Erie Paterson Market St. station to this temporary South Paterson station.

Thanks for your comments. I think the Erie Newark Branch(coming from compass north) was tied into the DLW Paterson branch (coming up from the south) right around Atlantic or Pacific ave in South Paterson. Somewhere (on the web?) I've seen great pictures of the construction, including the new overpasses you mention. I wish I remembered where I saw them!

From 1963 to 1966, trains ran via the Lackawanna Boonton Line and either ran via the Lackawanna Paterson Marshall St. station and around Garrett Mountain to Mountain View and on, or via South Paterson to connect with the Erie Main Line (timetable) east of the Erie Paterson Market St. station. I'm quite sure that a short remnant of the Lackawanna Boonton Line around Garrett Mountain still exists as a small industrial spur (timetable) east of the now-abandoned South Paterson station, accessed by a hand-thrown switch.

Is this what you are referring to? https://goo.gl/maps/UWCbrbJPFMu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Pretty cool. It is the only switch I can find in that area (about 400 feet compass west from where Montclair Ave ends when it runs into the bend in Circle Ave). Hard to tell, but it looks like the tracks run 400 ft or so north from the switch and end alongside a warehouse.

I believe that the connection of the Newark Branch where it crossed the Lackawanna Boonton line predated 1963. I was a student at Eastern Christian in North Haledon from 1962-1966, and I recall driving on Kuller Rd. when I was a freshman in 1962, and possibly earlier. It is very likely that the E-L was hungry for cash, and sold the old Newark Branch right-of-way to the city for the construction of Kuller Rd.

I may have read that Kuller Rd was part of the city making some real estate (from an old DLW(?) rail yard there) into a site for a new factory. I don't think the DLW Boonton Main line and Newark Branch connected before the EL (1960). I am open for correction on that one.

Thanks for your comments. I think the Erie Newark Branch(coming from compass north) was tied into the DLW Paterson branch (coming up from the south) right around Atlantic or Pacific ave in South Paterson. Somewhere (on the web?) I've seen great pictures of the construction, including the new overpasses you mention. I wish I remembered where I saw them!

I believe that you are correct as respects a connection; were there no connection, it would be difficult to move trainsets for Newark Branch trains onto the Lackawanna Paterson spur with the engine on the (timetable) east end of the train, or to do the reverse in the evenings. I have no firsthand knowledge of this, but I believe that the Newark Branch trainsets were stored overnight at Waldwick. Remember, too, that the original construction was a single track with a station at South Paterson, on the elevation. Once Newark Branch trains were eliminated in October, 1966, the South Paterson station was eliminated also. It had very, very little parking, and likely served as a transfer point for riders originating west of Waldwick. South Paterson, which didn't have an agent after the elevation of the Newark Branch/Main Line, likely had few riders who originated or terminated there.

Is this what you are referring to? https://goo.gl/maps/UWCbrbJPFMu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Pretty cool. It is the only switch I can find in that area (about 400 feet compass west from where Montclair Ave ends when it runs into the bend in Circle Ave). Hard to tell, but it looks like the tracks run 400 ft or so north from the switch and end alongside a warehouse.

Yes,Is this what you are referring to? https://goo.gl/maps/UWCbrbJPFMu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Pretty cool. It is the only switch I can find in that area (about 400 feet compass west from where Montclair Ave ends when it runs into the bend in Circle Ave). Hard to tell, but it looks like the tracks run 400 ft or so north from the switch and end alongside a warehouse. that's what's left of the Lackawanna Boonton Line around Garrett Mountain. Within a few days before the line was to be abandoned, I took a train from Lyndhurst to Paterson, and then took the bus back home. I lived in Rutherford at the time, and the walk to the Lyndhurst station was at least 2 miles. The Boonton Line was single tracked through Paterson at the time. The Lackawanna Marshall St. station was quite a distance from downtown Paterson, and, at about the time of abandonment, was not in the best of neighborhoods which provided much ridership. The station, however, was typical Lackawanna construction and would have lasted another 100 years.

I may have read that Kuller Rd was part of the city making some real estate (from an old DLW(?) rail yard there) into a site for a new factory. I don't think the DLW Boonton Main line and Newark Branch connected before the EL (1960). I am open for correction on that one.

I don't believe that the property along Kuller Road was a Lackawanna property. Before the Erie & Lackawanna shared the Boonton Line track for a few miles, the Boonton Line was to the west of the Newark Branch, and there is no evidence that the Boonton Line crossed the Newark Branch there. It might have been Erie property, but, with the Paterson yard so close, it doesn't seem likely that it was an Erie yard.

When I was in high school, I commuted to school by bus from Passaic to Paterson. We crossed the Newark Branch and the Lackawanna Paterson spur on Main St. The Lackawanna Paterson spur still had the diamond in it from one track of the trolley line that ran on Main St. I'm sure that this is long gone by now.

erie910 wrote:

I may have read that Kuller Rd was part of the city making some real estate (from an old DLW(?) rail yard there) into a site for a new factory. I don't think the DLW Boonton Main line and Newark Branch connected before the EL (1960). I am open for correction on that one.

I don't believe that the property along Kuller Road was a Lackawanna property. Before the Erie & Lackawanna shared the Boonton Line track for a few miles, the Boonton Line was to the west of the Newark Branch, and there is no evidence that the Boonton Line crossed the Newark Branch there. It might have been Erie property, but, with the Paterson yard so close, it doesn't seem likely that it was an Erie yard.

Yes, you are right, Kuller Rd was the Erie Branch ROW. Between the original Erie Branch on the east and the original DLW Boonton line and the DLW Paterson spur on the west, the DLW had their Paterson yard. That is the yard I was referring to. That property turned into the industrial /warehouse sites it is now at that time - I guess the EL didn't need the yard with ex-Erie Getty St yard so close, and for sure EL needed some cash. Kuller Rd was needed to access the site. I think it was a package deal.

I finally found the pictures I was looking for the connection of the DLW Paterson spur to the Erie Newark Branch, which then became the Erie Main Line ( 1963) when the former Erie main through downtown Passaic was abandoned. Thank you to Erie910 and others for the motivation to find them.
This is in the area between Hazel St (on the Clifton/Paterson border) and Main St in Paterson, about a half mile north of Hazel St. The DLW spur and Erie Newark branch ran north south next to each other, with Erie on the east side and the DLW on the west, both single tracks in 1963. Heading north was timetable West.

As mentioned earlier by erie910, as part of the project, the Erie Newark Branch was elevated for new bridges over Main St and Getty north of that. This first picture is looking north from the former Pacific St overpass. March 1963. From the ErieLack listserve: http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto. ... 31963a.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The center track is the Erie Newark branch line, which you can see especially near the very top of the photo has begun its elevation up towards Main St. A new connection (now going downhill) to the siding for the lumber building between Atlantic and Main St has been cut in on the right. On the left is a new connection (with the ballast hoppers on it) from the Erie swinging to the left (west) to connect to what remains of the DLW spur into Paterson, which continues north to cross Main St at grade.

This is from 1980, from the same bridge looking north again at the same scene but a little more forward: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2979340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There is a freight car on the siding on the right, and now you can see how the connection to the left swings over to join what is left from the DLW spur to Paterson (which used to hug the left side of the photo continuing south). And in the center is the ex-Erie main, with the new embankment more obvious, going up and over Main St in the distance. The small building left of the main is the former Erie South Paterson station, which was rebuilt on the new overpass over Main St in ~1963, only to be abandoned a few years later (1967?) when passenger service on the Newark branch was dropped. (I don't think Erie Main line trains, which now took this route, ever stopped at South Paterson once re-routed, but am not positive).

Now lets look south from same Pacific St bridge, the same day as the first picture in 1963. http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto. ... 031963.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; You see an Erie engine there to shift the ballast cars, and can pick out a track car behind it. The bridge in the distance is the Hazel St, and the track you see there is the original DLW Paterson spur. In the field of view of this picture (between Pacific and Hazel Sts) is where the Erie Newark branch was tied into the DLW Paterson branch (which connected to the Boonton Line main about ½ mile south past the Hazel St Bridge. The Erie used to kept to the left, and curved around the slight embankment to go under its own underpass under Hazel, which is around the slight embankment on the left so you can't see it. ( http://www.historicaerials.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a surprisingly sharp 1953 picture where you can see the pre-EL layout, and the 1979 view is a good one of the new layout, including the connections near the Pacific St bridge. What was the Erie ROW south of Hazel became Kuller St. THe empty space on far right in the foreground is where the DLW Paterson spur used to run. With the new layout, If EL wanted to use that spur, they had to come north under Hazel St on the ex-DLW, swing over to the ex-Erie Newark branch as shown in this photo, and then at Pacific street take the new connector going north back to what was left of the DLW spur as shown in the first 2 photos. Might have been simpler if they left in all of the original spur, but perhaps the DLW arch under Pacific St (see below) was shot or too small for modern cars, or there were significant tax issues even on the ½ mile of spur they took out.

Here's one last picture, looking north from Hazel St in 1965, towards Pacific St, also from the ErieLack list: http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto. ... ERIE-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; That is the ex-DLW Paterson spur under the bridge where the photographer is (with ex Erie ROW on the right). Then the new track swings over to the ex-Erie Newark branch ROW which then goes under Pacific St in the distance, and up and over Main out of view. If you look carefully , on the left side of the Pacific St bridge, you can see the small arch under which (I think) the ex-DLW Paterson spur used to go through.

This whole section is now double tracked. I don't know when exactly that happened but I think the early 2000's, back when NJT had $$ . The Pacific St bridge is now gone - perhaps part of the double track project. Hope all those links work. Jim S

EDIT: not 100% sure about that last picture. One or two things bother me, like the tell tails on both sides of the pole in the foreground, which would suggest the DLW spur once was double tracked

EL main line passenger trains stopped at South Patterson well into the 1970's....IDK how much longer after that. The single track from XW to "South Patterson" (Jct with the old boonton/DLW main) wasCTC controlled by the dispatcher in HOB. It was a PITA bottleneck during the EL days when there was still freight on the line. That stretch of track was DT'd in 2002, and I believe they smoothed out the "rollercoaster" too. The grade going north was short but ridiculous.

pdtrains wrote:EL main line passenger trains stopped at South Patterson well into the 1970's....IDK how much longer after that. The single track from XW to "South Patterson" (Jct with the old boonton/DLW main) wasCTC controlled by the dispatcher in HOB. It was a PITA bottleneck during the EL days when there was still freight on the line. That stretch of track was DT'd in 2002, and I believe they smoothed out the "rollercoaster" too. The grade going north was short but ridiculous.

Thanks for the correction. Getting rid of the roller coaster was problably then why they got rid of the Pacific St bridge, so they could start the ramp up in elevation further south to lessen the grade.

Best I can find on South Paterson station, was that it was closed in the early to mid 1980's