New Midwest/California Bi-Level Discussion

IMO a few things to consider:

1) As I understand it the contract with Nippon Sharyo includes options for up to 300 cars altogether so with this 1st option exercised (if it is) that still leaves 128 option cars to pick from.

2) With the Rockford/Dubuque and Quad Cities services on the drawing board as well as the potential future increases in ridership and frequencies in CA, MO, IL (particularly St. Louis-Chicago), and MI 172 cars may still not be enough to cover all bases.

3) The Amfleets will be sorely needed back east by the time deliveries of the bilevels are in full swing.

NH2060 wrote:.2) . . the potential future increases in ridership and frequencies in . . .
IL (particularly St. Louis-Chicago), and MI the 172 cars may still not be enough . . .

I'm sure I've read that the Illinois contract with Union Pacific allows four of the 110-mph trains each direction per day (the Eagle being an Amtrak issue, not an IL issue). There will be NO increase in frequencies until considerably more money is spent Chicago-Joliet, thru Springfield, and Alton-St Louis.

The roughly 30% more seats per bi-level than the old cars and the faster trip times for the four Lincoln trains are what we get for our Billion dollars in Illinois.

I expect prices on the Lincolns will be increased to manage down any "excess demand" arising from new faster trains. So the changes are not necessarily going to benefit current riders, depending on their disposable income.

But Michigan is on a roll. Owning a big stretch of track along with Amtrak's section, Michigan should find a way to use any added cars or trains it can get: a second Pere Marquette, a second Blue Water, a fourth Wolverine, a new train Lansing-Battle Creek-Ann Arbor-Dearborn-(don't say it too loud) Detroit-Pontiac, a restored connection like Pontiac-(don't say it too loud) Detroit-Dearborn-Ann Arbor-Toledo, OH allowing connections with Lake Shore Ltd and Capitol Ltd , new train Ann Arbor-Dearborn-(don't say it too loud) Detroit-Pontiac-Flint-Lansing, whatever.

Yeah, I don't think this anticipated order is enuff. But it is a solid and necessary step. Maybe the pro-rail team doesn't want to move too big and too bold for fear of provoking and inflaming the crazies before the election. So one step at a time.

NH2060 wrote:IMO a few things to consider:

1) As I understand it the contract with Nippon Sharyo includes options for up to 300 cars altogether so with this 1st option exercised (if it is) that still leaves 128 option cars to pick from.

2) With the Rockford/Dubuque and Quad Cities services on the drawing board as well as the potential future increases in ridership and frequencies in CA, MO, IL (particularly St. Louis-Chicago), and MI 172 cars may still not be enough to cover all bases.

3) The Amfleets will be sorely needed back east by the time deliveries of the bilevels are in full swing.

In the RFP, the option was for up to 200 cars in addition to the base order of 130 units. So if 42 units are ordered from the option, there would be 158 units left on the option.

The equipment to support 2 daily trains to Quad Cities and Rockford is baked into the 88 units in the base order for the Midwest. If they order 31 more units for the Midwest, it would be to provide more capacity on existing trains, have a larger reserve, and very likely to increase service frequencies or add a new route. I think Michigan services are the likely destination for most of the 31 extra cars.

afiggatt wrote:In the RFP, the option was for up to 200 cars in addition to the base order of 130 units. So if 42 units are ordered from the option, there would be 158 units left on the option.

The equipment to support 2 daily trains to Quad Cities and Rockford is baked into the 88 units in the base order for the Midwest. If they order 31 more units for the Midwest, it would be to provide more capacity on existing trains, have a larger reserve, and very likely to increase service frequencies or add a new route. I think Michigan services are the likely destination for most of the 31 extra cars.

Fascinating to think of that much new capacity coming online in the next few years. Lots of potential growth for Amtrak, much lower costs on a lot of maintenance and labor as well.

Presuming Amtrak ends up been the operator for the state corridors. They could lose 1 or 2 , putting a dent in their ridership.

Absolutely possible. However, demand for service is so strong in some areas I doubt very much excess rolling stock will sit unused, especially the new bi-levels. I remain interested to see the ultimate disposition of the Horizon fleet. I am under the impression these cars are largely in serviceable condition, just poorly configured for the corridors they are currently used on.

gokeefe wrote:I remain interested to see the ultimate disposition of the Horizon fleet. I am under the impression these cars are largely in serviceable condition, just poorly configured for the corridors they are currently used on.

any thoughts as to where that might be? They are reputed to be poor winter performers. Replacing Amfleets on Silver Service?

Anywhere in the South or Southwest that is considering new service, OK/MO/TX comes to mind. VA/NC as well. State funded corridors could happen in FL/AL/MS/LA (either through any combination of these four or just intra-state). Also LA/AR/TX. So plenty of warm weather low volume, regular speed corridors that are currently under active development by their respective states.

Figure on a set of Horizens kept in LA or Emeryville as relief/spare,and Charter service.
Figure on a set kept at Bear(Wilmington)for NEC Holiday service,relief,and Charter service.
Depending on what the plan is,could spell the end of leasing NJT Arrows for Turkey weekend service.

Although we can be certain this project is moving forward there has been little recent coverage with this one notable exception:

From the Rockford Register Star:

Kevin Koyasu, president and CEO of Nippon Sharyo U.S.A., told me he’s proud of the progress the company has made, noting that from 100 employees when the plant started operating in 2012, “we have grown to nearly 600 now, and I am optimistic about the long-term future as Americans look for more public transportation options.”

The company is currently working on five orders totalling from 230 to 240 cars, Koyasu said. And that has a ripple effect: “We’re working with 900 U.S. suppliers, 246 of whom are Illinois-based. Altogether, what we’re doing here is providing hundreds more jobs throughout Illinois.”

So far, the Rochelle plant has shipped 84 cars to Metra, eight coaches to Virginia Railway Express, two diesel multiple unit cars to the SMART agency of Sonoma and Marin counties in California, and four DMU cars to Metrolinx of Toronto. It it also building new coaches for Amtrak service in Illinois and California.

The photo appears to show Metra gallery cars under construction in the background.

As reported by various media outlets,there was tornados in the Rochelle IL area,with reports of buildings have been damaged
and 1 possible fatal in a wrecked restaurant in the area.
Did that storm damage the building Nippon is using to build the 2nd gen Surfliners?

gokeefe wrote:Although we can be certain this project is moving forward there has been little recent coverage with this one notable exception:

From the Rockford Register Star:

The photo appears to show Metra gallery cars under construction in the background.

Yep, those are the Electric Bi-level Gallery cars that are replacing the Highliners.

There's been no reports of any damage to the Nippon Shayro plant. The Trains camera at the BNSF/UP crossing is up and running with no apparent damage nearby. I think the tornado hit west of Rochelle itself.

Recently I've done some research on the internet regarding the bi-level car order. I found it notable how little information there is out there regarding any progress on the order. I'm impressed at the tight control that NS has obviously exercised over their shop. Honestly I would have an easier time finding information about military equipment contracts than this. The only additional thought that comes to mind is that as with CAF, perhaps NS is experiencing difficulty hiring sufficient personnel to construct the cars and as a result has been unable to start work on the cars at this time, hence the reason for so little photography. The alternative is that NS is simply working much slower than expected or perhaps the design hasn't been finalized but that is not my impression of the situation. Regardless, I found it generally interesting that something so big has been hidden so well for so long, especially given that it is being built in a known location and for a known reason.

NS is churning out Highliner EMU's for Metra and well as DMU's for Toronto and the SMART line north of San Francisco and, I think, gallery cars for VRE. The midwest/California bilevels will probably begin coming out after the Metra order is complete. Several months ago there was a report that prototypes were being assembled.