New Meadowlands Rail Station

ryanov wrote:And my point, as a resident of Newark who takes ENDLESS heat from friends aboout that fact, is that exaggeration is really the last thing the place needs. As funny as it is to rip on Newark, it's really fairly ignorant. I'm really not sure how much money the city needs to spend on making itself appear safe to people who listen to stereotypes in order to choose their nighttime destinations. What Newark DOES need to attract people downtown at night is anything that actually is open during the evening hours. People don't wander around in front of closed storefronts for entertainment.

What on god's earth does the state of Newark have to do with Meadowlands station construction?

Jishnu wrote:

ryanov wrote:And my point, as a resident of Newark who takes ENDLESS heat from friends aboout that fact, is that exaggeration is really the last thing the place needs. As funny as it is to rip on Newark, it's really fairly ignorant. I'm really not sure how much money the city needs to spend on making itself appear safe to people who listen to stereotypes in order to choose their nighttime destinations. What Newark DOES need to attract people downtown at night is anything that actually is open during the evening hours. People don't wander around in front of closed storefronts for entertainment.

What on god's earth does the state of Newark have to do with Meadowlands station construction?

On why they didn't build the Devils new arena at the Meadowlands. Answer: Because the Meadowlands are difficult to get to, and politics wanted an arena built in Newark. Of course with this new rail link the Meadowlands will officially become transit friendly, but at the current rate there may be no sport teams left at the Meadowlands--just a ridiculously overbuilt mall that no one will go to and a race track. Face it, the Meadowlands are sooo 1980's. City based arenas are the new flavor, and this extension to the Meadowlands could become yet another NJT huge mistake.

ryanov wrote:And my point, as a resident of Newark who takes ENDLESS heat from friends aboout that fact, is that exaggeration is really the last thing the place needs. As funny as it is to rip on Newark, it's really fairly ignorant. I'm really not sure how much money the city needs to spend on making itself appear safe to people who listen to stereotypes in order to choose their nighttime destinations. What Newark DOES need to attract people downtown at night is anything that actually is open during the evening hours. People don't wander around in front of closed storefronts for entertainment.

Chill out dude - my "ripping" on Newark was not based on heresay or stereotypes. I was actually there many times after work hours, although (like I said before) it was back in the late 90's. Around where the new arena is being built, there was (is?) practically nothing to keep any of the thousands of workers around after hours, not to mention attracting people who work elsewhere - if this has changed, please correct me. And yes, it really is not too pleasant walking around a mostly-deserted city after dark, no matter what city that might be.

For any place that has had a bad reputation (either deserved or not), it takes a long time for that reputation to turn around. Like you said, people don't wander around in front of closed storefronts - the arena can be the starting point of many good things. And with it being so close to Penn Station, it will expose downtown Newark to many people that would never even consider it an after-hours destination. It could go a long way to changing popular perceptions.

geoffand wrote:On why they didn't build the Devils new arena at the Meadowlands. Answer: Because the Meadowlands are difficult to get to, and politics wanted an arena built in Newark. Of course with this new rail link the Meadowlands will officially become transit friendly, but at the current rate there may be no sport teams left at the Meadowlands--just a ridiculously overbuilt mall that no one will go to and a race track. Face it, the Meadowlands are sooo 1980's. City based arenas are the new flavor, and this extension to the Meadowlands could become yet another NJT huge mistake.

Impeccible timing by NJT, but I still don't think it will be a mistake. The arena will still be there for concerts, college hoops, and whatever else they can schedule. The Jets and Giants are building a new stadium, so there are at least 18 home games (including exhibition games), and possible playoff games - plus the stadium is used for concerts, some college football and I'm sure other stuff. The racetrack is somewhat of a draw in itself, although probably most people going to the track will still drive. And if the mall is marketed correctly, it could be a draw for people from NY trying to save a bit on taxes, although with the recent hike in sales tax, that might not be as much of a factor.

Overall, I believe this will be a big plus for all concerned - IF NJT can make it convenient and cost effective. That's a big IF...

geoffand wrote:
On why they didn't build the Devils new arena at the Meadowlands. Answer: Because the Meadowlands are difficult to get to, and politics wanted an arena built in Newark. Of course with this new rail link the Meadowlands will officially become transit friendly, but at the current rate there may be no sport teams left at the Meadowlands--just a ridiculously overbuilt mall that no one will go to and a race track. Face it, the Meadowlands are sooo 1980's. City based arenas are the new flavor, and this extension to the Meadowlands could become yet another NJT huge mistake.

considering the PANYNJ is paying for it I don't think so. Yes those funds could go elsewhere but the PANYNJ wants it to go there. The station will have 2 trains an hour so it will double as a park-and-ride facility. If the West Shore is restored it will be a critical part of the West Shore connector.

geoffand wrote: On why they didn't build the Devils new arena at the Meadowlands. Answer: Because the Meadowlands are difficult to get to, and politics wanted an arena built in Newark. Of course with this new rail link the Meadowlands will officially become transit friendly, but at the current rate there may be no sport teams left at the Meadowlands--just a ridiculously overbuilt mall that no one will go to and a race track. Face it, the Meadowlands are sooo 1980's. City based arenas are the new flavor, and this extension to the Meadowlands could become yet another NJT huge mistake.

I don't think it can be a big mistake. Something will be built out there. As far as "transit friendly" because of the rail link? Exactly how many trains do you expect them to be running out there? I'm willing to bet that it's not 15 minute service we're talking about here.

<I>EDIT:</I> I see from the above that I was correct about the frequency of trains. Are they REALLY talking about running trains every 30 mins at all times though? Seems relatively unlikely to me.

how would the west shore connect to it? the west shore is the csx riverline or the one going to tenafly?

The West Shore Line is the CSX (ex-Conrail) River Line (via Teaneck, Bergenfield, Dumont etc.); the name "West Shore" is derived from the original main line's railroad name, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo RR. The road through Tenafly is the former Erie Northern Branch, originally the New Jersey Northern RR.

I wrote NJT about how the Meadowlands connector would join with the West Shore Line some years ago; their response at the time was that a new bridge over the Hackensack River would connect to the railroad at either Ridgefield Park or Little Ferry. What made things difficult was a demand that CSX put in that there had to be separate tracks for NJT trains and CSX trains, which is something worse than the LRT time-share or fence-off-ROW divisions that the FRA impose...

ryanov wrote:I don't think it can be a big mistake. Something will be built out there. As far as "transit friendly" because of the rail link? Exactly how many trains do you expect them to be running out there? I'm willing to bet that it's not 15 minute service we're talking about here.

<I>EDIT:</I> I see from the above that I was correct about the frequency of trains. Are they REALLY talking about running trains every 30 mins at all times though? Seems relatively unlikely to me.

Before and after large events, I'm sure they will run many "trains per hour." On days with nothing going on (just the mall), there would likely be much less frequent service. Hourly or half houly seems likely.

Irish Chieftain wrote:The West Shore Line is the CSX (ex-Conrail) River Line (via Teaneck, Bergenfield, Dumont etc.); the name "West Shore" is derived from the original main line's railroad name, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo RR. The road through Tenafly is the former Erie Northern Branch, originally the New Jersey Northern RR.

I wrote NJT about how the Meadowlands connector would join with the West Shore Line some years ago; their response at the time was that a new bridge over the Hackensack River would connect to the railroad at either Ridgefield Park or Little Ferry. What made things difficult was a demand that CSX put in that there had to be separate tracks for NJT trains and CSX trains, which is something worse than the LRT time-share or fence-off-ROW divisions that the FRA impose...

how would they have connected with RP or LF with a new bride over the hackensack? were they planning on having a somewhat elevated portion similar to the new pvl connection to the main line in secaucus?

2005Vdub wrote:

Irish Chieftain wrote:The West Shore Line is the CSX (ex-Conrail) River Line (via Teaneck, Bergenfield, Dumont etc.); the name "West Shore" is derived from the original main line's railroad name, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo RR. The road through Tenafly is the former Erie Northern Branch, originally the New Jersey Northern RR.

I wrote NJT about how the Meadowlands connector would join with the West Shore Line some years ago; their response at the time was that a new bridge over the Hackensack River would connect to the railroad at either Ridgefield Park or Little Ferry. What made things difficult was a demand that CSX put in that there had to be separate tracks for NJT trains and CSX trains, which is something worse than the LRT time-share or fence-off-ROW divisions that the FRA impose...

how would they have connected with RP or LF with a new bride over the hackensack? were they planning on having a somewhat elevated portion similar to the new pvl connection to the main line in secaucus?

I believe the plan was/is to have it parallel the Western Spur before getting to the Meadowlands.

Frogger wrote:

2005Vdub wrote:

Irish Chieftain wrote:The West Shore Line is the CSX (ex-Conrail) River Line (via Teaneck, Bergenfield, Dumont etc.); the name "West Shore" is derived from the original main line's railroad name, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo RR. The road through Tenafly is the former Erie Northern Branch, originally the New Jersey Northern RR.

I wrote NJT about how the Meadowlands connector would join with the West Shore Line some years ago; their response at the time was that a new bridge over the Hackensack River would connect to the railroad at either Ridgefield Park or Little Ferry. What made things difficult was a demand that CSX put in that there had to be separate tracks for NJT trains and CSX trains, which is something worse than the LRT time-share or fence-off-ROW divisions that the FRA impose...

how would they have connected with RP or LF with a new bride over the hackensack? were they planning on having a somewhat elevated portion similar to the new pvl connection to the main line in secaucus?

I believe the plan was/is to have it parallel the Western Spur before getting to the Meadowlands.

i could see that happening. was thinking of the samething.

Here's the design of the new station, there's an aerial view somewhere and when I find it I'll post it.

http://www.dmrarchitects.com/portfolio_ ... wlands.htm

That's not a bad looking station. I really like it. But even with the rise in sales tax it's only 7%. NY is paying 8.5% while NJ still charges no tax on food and clothing. NY only has that on certain times of the year so we are still cheap. For all of you whiners try live in the Tennesse area where the sales tax is 9%! Then your whinning about the sales tax will stop. Personally if the money from the increase will help get more projects to come on line like the Cutoff, MOM, W Trenton and to close the budget gap then I wouldn't mind if it was raised to 8%.

Honestly people a state sales Tax of 7 or 8% isn't that bad. There are states in the US that are higher then the 9% in Tennesse and as you know the military doesn't pay people as much as the incomes in NJ/NY area. So take it or move out!

Tom V wrote:Here's the design of the new station, there's an aerial view somewhere and when I find it I'll post it.

http://www.dmrarchitects.com/portfolio_ ... wlands.htm

thanks for the link, it also showed what our new police headquarters will look like.