• New locomotives purchased for Greenbush?

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by caduceus
 
I was curious, so a Google search came up with http://rlehmer.50megs.com/photos/Jacks/ for DDA40X. The first few images don't show how big they are, but they're BIG. It looks about twice the length of a typical light engine, and pretty tall, and the first picture shows it pulling 17 passenger coaches. I don't think the T needs them, although sometimes the way they are packed it might seem that way...
  by Cosmo
 
...not actualy multi trucked, but yeaaaaahhhhh, that's the critter! :-)
I remember it's got that funky space about mid-body.
Needham Branch, Yah-RIGHT?!?!???!?!!!!!
First sharp curve outta' FH and :P phpppllppppttt! Right over on it's side! :-D
  by octr202
 
Cosmo wrote:...not actualy multi trucked, but yeaaaaahhhhh, that's the critter! :-)
I remember it's got that funky space about mid-body.
Needham Branch, Yah-RIGHT?!?!???!?!!!!!
First sharp curve outta' FH and :P phpppllppppttt! Right over on it's side! :-D
For multi-trucked engines, you need the GE U50D. Here's a few pics:

http://www.modeltrains.com/PICTURES/PIC ... -p1659.jpg

They might work a bit better on New England branch lines...
:wink:

Okay, time to end the sarcasm before I derail this any further...

  by AznSumtinSumtin
 
I was joking about buying DDA40X's and steam locomotives. But they would look good pulling 20 car rush hour trains. Ya, the T should lengthen platforms on the Worcester/Framingham branch for longer trains during rush hour. But then, more locomtives are gonna be needed to pull longer trains. So I would say a new locomotive thats a cowl unit and is based on a powerful freight. Oh, lets say, SD80MAC.

  by octr202
 
AznSumtinSumtin wrote:I was joking about buying DDA40X's and steam locomotives. But they would look good pulling 20 car rush hour trains. Ya, the T should lengthen platforms on the Worcester/Framingham branch for longer trains during rush hour. But then, more locomtives are gonna be needed to pull longer trains. So I would say a new locomotive thats a cowl unit and is based on a powerful freight. Oh, lets say, SD80MAC.
Actually, our friends down on the LIRR board are way ahead of us on that front:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 18&start=0

:wink:
  by Cosmo
 
OK, looks like the DD-40X has some kind of wackey 4 axle trucks. How would such a thing fair on the tight curvature of NE's shortline commuter branches? Would it even be possible? I'm just curious.
I'm guessing that the neccessary speed restrictions on such a thing would negate most of the bennies of using them, but again, "silly New Englander." :wink:
  by elecuyer
 
How about a steam locomotive.
Actually, I have on record a April 1, 2000 press release that states that Steam was to be used...

[Boston] - April 1, 2000
Greenbush Extension of T Commuter Rail to be Powered by Historic Steam Locomotives

After decades of painful negotiations, the Cellucci administration has finally found a compromise that allows commuter trains to pass through historic Hingham Square. "Many of the buildings in Hingham Center were constructed at the turn of the last century, while steam locomotives of the Old Colony Railroad traveled safely through town. Now, we are returning to the roots of this operation in a historic fashion."

The engines will be built in China, since factories there are still capable of manufacturing the locomotives, and have done so as recently as 1995. The Governor himself negotiated the contract terms during a recent trade mission to China. "Although this deal has been months in the planning, our willingness to cooperate with the Chinese people have made this dream a reality."

Of course, there will be some modifications to the design, based on the needs of the MBTA. To satisfy environmental issues, the engines will be fired using Natural Gas, rather than coal. Through a public-private partnership, locomotives will refuel near the Boston Gas facility in Dorchester, known for its brightly colored gas tanks. Also, the fueling process itself will be accomplished in a unique fashion while the trains pass by the Dorchester tanks at track speed. An individual identified only as "Charlie's Wife" will oversee the operation as the trains go rumbling through. "She is uniquely qualified for the job", added Cellucci.

Additional modifications to the locomotives include the ability to run in commuter rail 'push-pull' operation, so that the engine will not need to be turned at each end of the line. Reportedly, this may be required, as digging a turntable pit in the marshy Greenbush area of Scituate south of the driftway, would likely suffer from chronic flooding problems. Local resident "The Lady of the River" seemed satisfied with this compromise.

To match the color scheme of the rest of the MBTA fleet, the locomotives will be painted purple with yellow trim. "We think that will make for an attractive locomotive", Cellucci noted.

Although it appeared to be a win-win for all parties, this solution has caused some controversy. A union member, known simply as "Thomas" claimed that the Celluicci administration was engaging in union busting by selecting Chinese manufactured engines. Thomas, of British decent, stated, "I was unable to show the residents of Massachusetts that I am a Really Useful Engine". Union spokesman, Sir Topham Hatt was unavailable for comment.

Local steam expert George Bartholomew, former operator of the Edaville Railroad and Combres and Toltec (both of which used steam power), was called in for consultation on the project. However, he was immediately fired when he suggested that the T could save money by discontinuing the use of holding tanks for bathroom refuse, and instead allow untreated waste to empty onto the tracks. Cellucci noted that although this was a historically accurate move, "it's not a good idea."

Officials from the town of Hingham were unavailable for comment as they were stuck in traffic on the Southeast Expressway.

Similar negotiations are underway with the towns of Easton and Raynham to use alternative power for trains bound for Fall River and New Bedford. However, local and national animal rights groups are opposing the plan to haul trains through the environmentally sensitive Hocomock swamp using alligators tied to the front of the train using special harnesses.

Ed Lecuyer, of Groton Ma., Reporting


PS: Five years later and I still chuckle at the thought of purple and yellow steam engines. :-)

  by AznSumtinSumtin
 
LOL! Please note the April 1 date at the top left.
Although it appeared to be a win-win for all parties, this solution has caused some controversy. A union member, known simply as "Thomas" claimed that the Celluicci administration was engaging in union busting by selecting Chinese manufactured engines. Thomas, of British decent, stated, "I was unable to show the residents of Massachusetts that I am a Really Useful Engine". Union spokesman, Sir Topham Hatt was unavailable for comment.
Also note that Thomas and Sir Topham Hatt are characters from the childrens show about talking British steam locomotives, Thomas the Tank Engine. Also stated in that paragraph, Thomas describes himself as a "Really Useful Engine", just as in Thomas the Tank Engine.

I don't really think steam locomotives would work in modern day commuter rail, unless someone developes an electric-steam locomotive. Some kind of electric heater would turn water into steam that powers the engine. But the engine would have to be watered frequently.
  by Cosmo
 
Actually, there WAS a prototype steam-electric loco used somewhere in europe. I belive it was a smallish forney or "shunter" and was used in local switching operations. Basicaly, it was a "Thomas with a pantograph," although more "Continental" in appearance than "Li'l T". The reason was a feul crunch during WWII, IIRC. I belive it was mentioned more than once in TRAINS, and possibly other magazines, and YES, the pan DID power a heater in the "firebox" like you described.
Not verry efficient, unfortunately. Probably scrapped after, or even durring the war.

  by Tadman
 
As far as spare power from another passenger RR: NRE has 12 ex-metra F40C's in good shape and needing a home soon. They also have some Ex-BN E9m's that have quite a few miles on them.

Regarding new passenger power: Didn't Alaska RR buy some SD70MAC's and have them factory equipped with HEP? I know this isn't a textbook passenger loco like a P42, but this was all the rage with engines like the FP7 and FP45 and SDP45. I'm not sure it's that different of a situation now.

Regarding electric power: Those NdeM E60's are hardly used and probably in good shape. The GG1's sitting around used hard and done with their life. However, a purchase of common NEC electric power would allow MBTA to pool with amtrak and have their equipment maintained in Wilmington.
  by Cosmo
 
There's always the ACE 3000!!!! :P

  by AznSumtinSumtin
 
How about an AC4400 or AC6000 converted for passenger service on the popular lines, like Worcester/Framingham. It can haul super long trains for rush hour. That will free up some locomotives for Greenbush.

The T could convert all the commuter rail lines into rapid transit. We could have trains traveling from Worcester all the way to Lowell via the Green Line subway. Or trains from Greenbush/Plymouth/Kingston/Middleborough going all the way up to Fitchburg via the Red Line. Providence/Stoughton to Haverhill via the Orange Line. Franklin to Newburyport via the Blue Line. Needham to Rockport via Silver Line. We would have 5 hour train rides and severe car shortages.

But I am serious about converting AC4400's.

  by Tadman
 
Why try to convert an AC4400 when EMD already has the SD70MAC conversion figured out?

  by CSX Conductor
 
Sorry guys, but you'll never see the AC4400's or SM70Mac's purchased by the MBTA...... 6 axle units are prohibitted from MBCR lines on the South Side, as well as on the NEC. :(

  by Silverliner II
 
Just take the easy way out and buy some ex-Amtrak F40PH's.

Have them rebuilt at Juniata shops by NS with a CAT HEP package (as was done with NJT and MNR F40's), and then send them up to Boston. Build enough of them to supplement the current locomotive roster, and trade in the GP40MC's for parts (mainly the prime mover, and other useful components). I figure 35 units would do the trick (25 to replace the GP40MC's, and 10 to augment the fleet)....number them 1150-1184.

But I'm dreaming.

The F59PH and F59PHI are both out of production and are no longer on GM's catalog. The Genesis is out of production as well, and only 8 or 10 former Amtrak P40's are left active, most in either work service or leased to ConnDOT. But the Gennies have horrible acceleration for commuter service anyway.