New, higher speed on the River Sub in Kingston......

Effective today, November 15th, a new speed change will be
permanent.The spped between MP 86.4 and 88.8 is now raised from 35
MPH to 50 MPH. This is notable in that it covers the speed through
downtown kingston NY, through CP-87 ay MP 87.6 and over the massive
steel Wilbur Bridge over Rondout Creek. My questions are: 1)Who
decided all of a sudden that the bridge is good for 50 MPH, 2) Ya
think the people in Kingston are gonna be a bit surprised at this?,
and 3) Are the crossing gates set for 35 MPH activation or doesn't
the speed matter?? Inquiring minds want to know; and good luck to the
crews!

Good luck to the people in Kingston if they needed to adjust the gate sensors too!

For what it's worth, I heard an engineer friend mention the 50 mph speed limit (over Wilbur Bridge) to the track foreman on his patrol south this AM. The latter said it's still 40 mph.

All I can tell you is what I had read in the bulletin, which took effect this morning. If this is to be amended, then it would most likely appear in the dispatchers bulletins of each individual train. I understand that the speeds in this area WERE at 50 MPH in the old PC days, but were reduced when a boat struck the bridge in the early/mid 70's... can't confirm this, but in my 17 years on the railroad, the speed has always been 35, so we shall see.... stay tuned, as i'm syure there may be more to this.....

Shouldnt it be mandatory for the railroad to inform towns such as Kingston of dramatic speed changes like this? I have been to Kingston and know how close those grade crossings are and this suprises me that the speed limits are going up this high.

You know, Jeff, I agree 110%. There is quite a bit of difference between 35MPH and 50 MPH, and as you noted, and anyone who's been in that city will tell you, there are several grade crossings concentrated within the space of under 1/2 a mile. The thing here is that most citizens try and beat the trains in that town based on what they percieve to be the slower speed. With the increased speed, look for more accidents. The town should be made aware of such changes, if for nothing else, just in the name of safety and community relations. But it should be an interesting thing to see.... I'll find out when i go north tonight and go through Kingston about 3:30-4:00AM(assuming we're on or close to schedule)....

Some RR's will run 5mph greater each week until they are at the new limit if its a drastic change such as this.

There may be a bulletin order showing a "temporary speed restriction" with a greater speed each week until they are at the new limit. Most RR's don't inform the town of the newer speeds.

In this case, Kingston isn't really fond of CSX to begin with...and once word gets out they are traveling faster...there may be too much public hype and then all hell breaks out.

Hey Ralph -- I remember that little jog to the right as you come out of the tunnel and onto the bridge going south. At 35 it was unsettling. I can just imagine the feel of it at 50.

When you're on the right side of the cab, as you know, the view is straight down as you get on the bridge.

You'll have to hold on tight to that Dunkin Donuts coffee!

You'll be happy to know that little shift at the north end of the bridge/south end of the tunnel is still there.... I will still do 35, until i get my engines over the bridge, then its "8 and sand"!

Ralph seeing as how the cars try to beat the trains in that town will you still hold a "reasonable" speed through there? Like not enough to slow your trip to much (does it really matter much on the Riverline anyway? lol) but enough so that you as the engineer will feel safe.

Historically, there was a noise ordinance for Kingston that prohibited horn at the crossings. "Bell only" was how we always went through there.

Still in effect? Raising the speed -- yikes!

RCB -- is there a trainmaster in Kingston anymore? If so, who is it?

Why wasn't there ever a grade separation project in Kingston? I know that here in the Southern Tier both Elmira and Corning pushed for and got them back in the 1930s and 1950 respectively. Is it a matter of Kingston's more recent growth (my area has seen a population drop since then) or because it was a different railroad calling the shots?

Broadway (I think that's right) has crossed under grade for many years, but I don't believe they've done any others since then.

Grade separation is the only viable long-term solution to crossing problems, as I see it anyway.

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LCJ IS correct in the fact that Broadway passes under the tracks. The remaining intersections are all at grade leve, and as far I know, we have no restrictions on using the horns, and if there ever was/is one, I simply blow the horn accordingly, and if someopne says something, I'll tell them that there was somneone on/near the tracks. What can they say, don't blow the horn? I have a real problem with local towns passing laws like this, in an attempt to regulate a federally regulated industry. But, anyway, no sooner did they raise the speeds then they placed a 40 MPH temporary speed restriction over the length of the bridge.... Hmmmm..... maybe someone isn't so sure of the new speed? we'll see how long this 40 MPH TSR remains......
stay tuned.....

rcbds45, I tried to tell you about the 40 mph limit over Wilbur Br. on Monday. Also, there may have been an understanding between CSXT and Kingston officials regarding horn blowing, particularly in the early morning hours. However, as I live within 2 mi. of Smith Ave. and can hear the horns, it seems that most engineers use sound judgement (no pun intended) about this. To wit, they don't sit on the horn when there's no reason to. As for grade separation on the 6 crossings in Kingston, tell me how it could be accomplished, keeping in mind the Broadway overpass is an entirely different situation. I.e., a grade separation would be prohibitively expensive plus it would destroy many homes and businesses (and one cemetery) in the vicinity even assuming that it could be done. Crossing gates that completely cover all lanes of traffic and thus prevent end runs around them would be much less disruptive and "cost effective." Vigorous enforcement of traffic law by the RR and the 3 or 4 local police agencies would also help matters. Respectfully, PB