NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Ken W2KB wrote:I would guess that the only way to modify the Bayonne Bridge would be jackup the steel portion higher above the concrete supports, similar to what was done to the sole remaining CNJ mainline track bridge over Route 1 in Elizabeth. If that's how it was to be done, the trolley capability would not be compromised. Might even be economic to put in the complete track support structure at the same time since the necessary construction structures and equipment would be there anyway.

I was thinking of this option also, for 2 reasons. One, jacking up the bridge would allow this unlikely location to keep its longest steel arch span in the world title, as well as allowing the larger ships to pass under, helping to boost the economic value and jobs numbers of the port and related industries. All this while connecting staten island with the mainland to the north with rail, cutting down the travel time if only an east/west connection were made. I would hope some sort of connection would be made also to 8th st station on the HBLR, thinking of the steinway trollies that were built specifically to save weight and allow practical engineering to carry them over the QBB in nyc. I think one of those "slim" takes on the PCC design such as are used in older cities with narrower streets might work... North shore SIRT line rebuilt to connect the whole shabang?

- A

One big obstacle would be the funding between the agencies involved.
I don't think you'd ever get stimulus or state money for it when it'd be far cheaper to run connecting bus service to 8th Street HBLR station once the extension is completed. Look at all the problems with service to Tenafly on with a pre-exsisting railbed in place.I think any North Shore connection would have made far more sense over a new Goethals Bridge to Newark Airport.

MickD wrote:One big obstacle would be the funding between the agencies involved.
I don't think you'd ever get stimulus or state money for it when it'd be far cheaper to run connecting bus service to 8th Street HBLR station once the extension is completed. Look at all the problems with service to Tenafly on with a pre-exsisting railbed in place.I think any North Shore connection would have made far more sense over a new Goethals Bridge to Newark Airport.

Given the benefits to both states, and that the owner of the bridge is a bi-state agency, the Port Authority might well include adding the trolley line to the bridge project. The design was for brackets on the outer edges of the approaches and the supports are already there in the arch section.

If any light rail service connects NJ with NY it won't be to the airport from staten island. It would be a separate service jointly operated by njt and the PA across the bridge from Bayonne. It could stop at 8th st and run in traffic over the bridge. The current fleet of LRV I think are a bit heavy for the Bayonne bridge, so I think another 55 mph capable tram would have to do. I say the bridge can't handle it looking at it from a long term fatigue standpoint, not a load limit standpoint, you don't want the cool new connecting service to shorten the lifespan of the historic engineering landmark.

As far as all these ideas to connect the airport with other service, where is the money? I think it would cost about 1-2 bln to connect anything more with the airport due to the layout of properties and existing rights of way.

HBLR wrote:If any light rail service connects NJ with NY it won't be to the airport from staten island. It would be a separate service jointly operated by njt and the PA across the bridge from Bayonne. It could stop at 8th st and run in traffic over the bridge. The current fleet of LRV I think are a bit heavy for the Bayonne bridge, so I think another 55 mph capable tram would have to do. I say the bridge can't handle it looking at it from a long term fatigue standpoint, not a load limit standpoint, you don't want the cool new connecting service to shorten the lifespan of the historic engineering landmark.

As far as all these ideas to connect the airport with other service, where is the money? I think it would cost about 1-2 bln to connect anything more with the airport due to the layout of properties and existing rights of way.

Though since the PA intends to raise the bridge to accommodate larger ships thru the Kill Van Kull, it is possible that structural strengthening of the structure proper including the extant provisions for future trolley operations could be made part of that project.

That's an excellent point. If for a few extra dollars they gain a rail link they could "kill 2 birds with one stone". I'll have to review the maps of streets and properties on both ends of the bridge, and the proposal for the changed aproaches and see what the grades would be. If the deck hangers were beefed up and the deck trusses were partially replaced you could do it no problem, but you still need a reasonable approach and departure grade, even the lrv njt has chosen to use have limitations. Since there is a lot of truck traffic, especially to and from the local ports and the cargo depot at Newark international, the likelihood of incompatible grades is slightly reduced, but the lrv can only flex in so many axis to such a degree at once.

Anyone know why NJT is not turning the LRV's using the turn-track near MLK?

They are currently switching all outbound trains to the inbound platform at the crossover between Broad Street and University Ave.

Is the Newark City Subway / Newark Light Rail still considered part of NJT Bus Operations' Central Division, or did it get rolled into the Light Rail Division that oversees the DBOM operations of the HBLR and RL ?

AFAIK, still Bus Ops.

Funny, I was just thinking about posting to question why this thread is still stickied.

oknazevad wrote:

PVRX1 wrote:Is the Newark City Subway / Newark Light Rail still considered part of NJT Bus Operations' Central Division, or did it get rolled into the Light Rail Division that oversees the DBOM operations of the HBLR and RL ?

AFAIK, still Bus Ops.

Funny, I was just thinking about posting to question why this thread is still stickied.

That is incorrect.

All light rail lines in NJ fall under the light rail operations group at NJT.

Ah, ok.

Being the case, does the mean the Newark ops are now contracted, like HBLR and the River Line, or do they have a dedicated office staff, operators' roster, etc? Either way, anything source-wise I could use to update the Wikipedia article? It still places them under the Bus Ops.

oknazevad wrote:Ah, ok.

Being the case, does the mean the Newark ops are now contracted, like HBLR and the River Line, or do they have a dedicated office staff, operators' roster, etc? Either way, anything source-wise I could use to update the Wikipedia article? It still places them under the Bus Ops.

Newark light rail is not a contracted service. The operators though are all certified NJT bus operators which lends itself to some confusion. Nothing source-wise other than my good word.

"other than my good word." - Good a gold. Doesn't get any better.

I agree. Sadly, message board posts are not considered such. Ah well.

So, essentially, Light Rail ops is a separate entity in the NJT offices, and acts as the liaison for the HBLR and RiverLine contracted services, while also directly managing NLR, which is staffed with operators brought over from the Bus Ops division. At least that's what I think you're saying.

oknazevad wrote:I agree. Sadly, message board posts are not considered such. Ah well.

So, essentially, Light Rail ops is a separate entity in the NJT offices, and acts as the liaison for the HBLR and RiverLine contracted services, while also directly managing NLR, which is staffed with operators brought over from the Bus Ops division. At least that's what I think you're saying.

More or less, yeah. Light Rail ops is not it's own entity though like bus and rail ops. Light Rail ops falls under the auspices of the Capital Planning and Programs department. Also, the NLR operators aren't brought over from bus ops, they are bus operators on the roster. They get to bid on the light rail jobs based on seniority for an extra stipend. But you could have an individual who operates the NLR one day and then gets bumped to a bus route a day or so later.