Musings on a 4x8...

So, I'm pondering another project layout...

I know, some of you are thinking, "What? Another one?!?!?"

Well, this one is NOT for me, but one I want to build for charity.


As most may remember, I was diagnosed with Cancer and underwent Chemotherapy during the winter of 2008/09. (This past April 10 (2010) was my first anniversary of being Cancer-free!) Since then, I've wanted to build a project layout either to donate to a Pediatric Cancer Ward, or to give away to charity to raise funds for Cancer research.

I had originally wanted to build a layout for the Pediatric Cancer Ward at the Mayo Clinic (where I underwent Chemo), but I don't know if they would accept it, or not (possible liabilty and environmental hazards). However, next year (and the year after), my hometown is going to be hosting the Relay for Life, so I'm thinking of building a layout to put up for auction.


I had originally thought of building an 8'x12' "L" shaped layout built on two sheets of 4'x8' plywood. The trackplan would have been a modified "figure-8," with each "loop" of the eight occupying one of the sheets of plywood, with an over/under crossing and oppourutnities for switching industries in the middle of each loop. The railroad would have served two small towns on the layout: New Hope and Freedom.

However, after more consideration, I thought it might be too much layout for most people, and will scale it back to one 4x8.

I haven't decided whether to go with another figure-8, or build a plain oval, but I'd like to have some switching to add some interest to opertation, beyond just watching the trains go 'round and 'round.


I have some Atlas code 100 NS flexitrack and a bunch of #4 switches I was going to give away, as well as some other odds and ends I was going to give away to either the Salvation Army or Goodwill, and I also have some spare 1x4s and plywood I was going to use for another (non-railroad) project. So, I have materials to get the project rolling, and I have 14-16 months in which to build it... if I decide to build it.


So, I dunno... I think it's a worthwhile project, but what do you guys think? Anybody else out there done something like this and is willing to share their experiences? Any other thoughts? I'm open to suggestions.

First, congratulations on your anniversary.

This is a noble project. I haven't built layouts specifically for auction, but I have done ones to give away, including as a door prize for the folks at the RIT Train Show.

My counsel would be to try to keep things relatively simple. A "general audience" won't sweat the details, it will take a bit less time and effort, and if the recipient really gets the "bug" to model railroad out of the layout, he or she will want to add their own personal touch to the pike.

First, CONGRATULATIONS on the good news regarding your health!!

Idea? Noble and WONDERFUL.

Whatever you put into it, you can write off your taxes for donating it to a pediatric facility.

Write manufacturers asking for donations, try going through WORLD'S GREATEST HOBBY for starters, personally I find them not very helpful outside of giving printed material, but you have nothing to lose.

Pediatrics? GO WITH THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE for broad based appeal.

D/

Alright, so...

I was cleaning out the garage and taking stock of some of the surplus lumber I have laying around... I've got enough 1x4s to build a frame.

I also happen to have a 4x8 sheet of pink styrafoam insulation...


I've never done the styrafoam-based layout construction method, so I've got to ask those who have done this... did you put down a sub-base of plywood, or did you just attatch the styrafoam to the frame? I don't have my "library" handy (it's in storage at a friend's house) so, I can't reference any construction articles at the moment. From what I remember, when this method was just starting out, guys would just glue styrafoam to the frame.

Track will be a mix of Atlas Code 100 sectional, #4 turnouts and flexitrack. I'm also thinking of puting Midwest cork under the track and use Tortise switch machines (hoping for a few donations). Again, from what I remember from past articles in Model Railroader, guys would glue the cork to the styrafoam and then lay the track on top of that. I think (NOTE: ** THINK **) a few guys just cut out plywood that matched the track plan, elevated the plywood subroadbed to the thickness of the styrafoam and cut the styrafoam to fit the plywood sub-roadbed. Which seems like a LOT of work.

Now, I'd like this layout to be nice and light, which is why I want to try the styrafoam construction method. However, I've NEVER done it before, so if worse comes to worse... I'll just go "old school" and put it on a 4x8 sheet of plywood (which, given the nature of the layout... might actually be the best course of action).


So, if there's anyone out there who has "been there, done that" with the styrafoam, your input would be appreciated on this design aspect of the layout.

Also, if there's anyone out there with some extra time and some tallent in the track planning aspect who'd like to help me work out a good, working trackplan for this thing, please send me an e-mail (go to my profile and zip one off to me). Your name will be added to the list of contributors that will be displayed with the layout.

I haven't designed a layout in a while, and I'm more of a switching layout kind of guy, whereas this will either be a loop or a figure eight. I'm thinking a loop for continuous operation, with some switching to add some operational interest to the layout and I don't want to create a "spaghetti bowl" effect.

I need to mull over what industires I want to put on the layout, but the setting will be a rural, small town setting, with agri-buisinesses being the focus for service. I'm also thinking this will be a small, "grainger" railroad serving the layout, as Fillmore County (MN) was served primarily by the Milwaukee Road, the Chicago & Great Western ran through the neighboring town of Spring Valley (it crossed the MILW at a diamond there) and the Chicago & North Western served the city of Rochester (home of the Mayo Clinic... where I had my Chemo treatments) to the north in Olmstead County. There was a spur (short branchline?) that ran from Rochester to Chatfield, a small town that straddles the border between both Fillmore and Olmstead Counties. So, I'm thinking a freelanced shortline, the RF&L (Relay For Life) which will use second-hand "masked" ("Bandit?") locomotives of obvious MILW and C&NW heritage.

I'd also like a small engine servicing area, with an old enginehouse, and servicing facilities... maybe a derilict coal dock and water tower... if there's room. A small yard would be nice too, but, again, that might be cramming too much into the layout.


That's all I have "fleshed out" right now. I've been too busy with other projects to devote a whole lot of time to this project at the moment. But, I think I'm going to knock the frame together this weekend.

As I've said before, any comments, questions and/or concerns would be appreciated.

Thanks, guys.

If I recall, you're in a northern state; can you buy HOMASOTE in your area??

D?

Dieter wrote:If I recall, you're in a northern state...

Yup, still in Minnesota.

Dieter wrote: ...can you buy HOMASOTE in your area??

Yessir. I know Menards (one of the home-improvement chains here in the Midwest) in Rochester (a mere 30 miles away) supplies it. Haven't really looked at Lowe's or Home Depot. I also think a couple lumber yards up there supply it as well.

I have a lot of Midwest cork that I was thinking of using. Strips for under the track as well as the large sheets. That's how I've done my layouts in the past... plywood table top, cork for the sub-roadbed and then lay the track on top of that. You would, instead, reccomend putting a sheet of Homasote on top of the plywood and build the layout from there?

I'd go without the homasote. The homasote muffles noise and in spite of the fact that this is going into a hospital setting, I'm sure that it would be in a gameroom type setting. The noise would make it more involving and exciting for the kids. How about a double track with fixed speed so as to make a game out of it as well racing the trains ? Congrats on your recovery.

3rdrail wrote: Congrats on your recovery.

Your sentiments are very much appreciated. Feels good to be free of "the beast" (as my Mother called it).

3rdrail wrote: ... in spite of the fact that this is going into a hospital setting ...

Actually, this layout is going to be put up for auction for the 2011 Fillmore County Relay For Life. I'm going to see what kind of response it illicits from people at the Relay and talk to a few Mayo employees to see if it will be something they'd like to have at the Childrens' Ward. Plus, I don't really have any photos of past layouts that I can use as examples of my work, so this would give me something to show them, not to mention that having an ACTUAL EXAMPLE of my work present for them to inspect and critique might improve my chances of building a layout for them as well.

So, yeah, the hostpital layout is on hold for now. This will be a "dry run" before I proceed with that one.

3rdrail wrote: ... I'm sure that it would be in a gameroom type setting. The noise would make it more involving and exciting for the kids.

Well, hopefully, it goes to a family with children, or maybe an aunt/uncle/grandparents who have nieces/nephews/grandchildren who are frequent visitors who will play with it and inspire the next generation of model railroaders. Maybe it will go to a "big kid" who will get excited over it.

But, we'll see.

By the way, guys...

I've had a couple people contact me in regards to a few sources for track plans for this project and I'll look into them.

However, I don't know if Mr. Ian MacMillan frequents this forum, but if he does, could he contact me in regards to possibly assisting with the trackplan for this layout? (Or if someone here happens to be a friend of his...) My e-mail is in my profile description. It would be appreciated.

As others have said, this is a wonderful project.

As for the layout design, it depends on the age of your target audience. If it is for small children, keep it simple. I built a 4 by 6 for my son when he was small (4-7 years old). It was a loop of track and one spur. This limits the chances of dreailments. I discovered that the thing he enjoyed most was the roads where he could run his cars. I also left lots of open area for the Lego structures he wanted to add, along with Lego figures, action figures and dinosaurs. Oh, and a tunnel was a must. (It was made out of Styrofoam, and it was removable.) In other words, it was a platform for imagination, with a train running around the outside.

John Longhurst, Winnipeg

1x4 framing bits were cut today.

Had some other projects that required my attention today (I'm doing some remodeling projects for my folks, so I'm going to work on the layout when I get a few minutes here and there), so I'll screw the pieces together tomorrow.

Will order the 4x8 sheet of plywood from the lumberyard later this week (first donation!!!). I'm thinking 1/2" ply, as that is what I've used on all my layouts, but I know there have been some modelers in the past who have used 5/8". 1/2" should be sufficent, I would think. This is going to be a small and simple layout, devoid of excessive scenery, plus I want to keep it as light as I can... Although, I am open to arguments from the pro 5/8" crowd.

So, construction has officially started.


In other news...

I've sat here, online, looking at track plans for 4x8 layouts. I've seen some interesting ideas and might build a variation on one of them. So far, the one that really grabs me, is one I saw on Kato USA's website, the Black River Junction plan. It has the right "vibe" (for lack of a better word) of what I'd like to do. An oval for continuous operation and plenty of switching. Plus there's room for expansion if the winner of the auction wishes to enlarge their empire.

But, I'm going to keep looking and see what else I can find and what else catches my fancy.

Or, if one of our members creates a plan that really blows me away (hint, hint... )


Anyway...

Will post pics of progress as they unfold and will keep you guys updated as things happen.

Later, guys!!!


(P.S., I really appreciate the positive comments and suggestions. Any questions, comments, concerns and/or advice are always welcome.)

Taking a break from my remodeling work and thought I'd announce that the first donation has been procoured for the project.

I had some more remodeling materials delivered to the house this afternoon, and included with my 2" thick styrafoam insulation, was a 4'x8' slab of 1/2" thick plywood.

So, mange tusen tak ("many thousand thanks" in Norwegian) to Preston Lumber LLC of Preston, MN for providing the table top for the layout.

I have to work tonight at the radio station, so tomorrow, I'll attach the plywood to the frame and give the whole thing a going over in primer and then the frame and underside a coat of "Werks Grey" (it will make things easier for me to see when the time comes to mount switch machines and wiring. The plywood tabletop will get a coat of either dark green or tan before I get ready to lay track.


Speaking of... here's the trackplan for the Black River Junction, as featured on the KATO USA website...

http://www.katousa.com/images/unitrack/3-0680.jpg

I may make a couple of modifications, but that's roughly what I'm going to go with.


And, the project continues...

Oh...

And I've been contemplating the motive power for the "fleet" for this layout...


To give a nod to both of Fillmore County's railroads, I'm going to go with an MP15AC for the MILW unit and a GP-7/9 for the C&NW unit. I would rather have an SW-1 for the MILW, as that was the ONLY locomotive that could operate in my area (weight restrictions on the bridges and trestles), but nobody, other than Model Power makes one. So, unless someone out there has a Walther's SW-1 they're willing to part with, I'm going to do the MP. As for the C&NW Geep, well, that's what I remember being used around Winona (MN) when I was a kid, before the UP takeover in '95. (I don't know what they used in Chatfield, as I am too young to remember the trains coming into town... unless the spur was abandoned before '76, then they would have been gone before my time.)

What do you think? Seems like that would be a reasonable ammount of power for a shortline. Or, should I give into my ALCohaulic tendancies and swap the geep for an RS-3 (another unit the C&NW used in Winona)? Motive power is still open for debate (well, for now, at least), and I am open to hearing thoughts and opinions on that.

Anyway, that's my musings on that end of things.

Okay, so...

It's not much to look at, but it's a start...



There's the frame for the project layout before it gets primer, a coat or two of grey paint and the tabletop (which will also be primed and painted before track is laid.

This picture also shows you a little of the other BIGGER projects I've been working on... stripping the walls of that God-awful 70s-era fake, wood, panneling, constructing a new surround for the HVAC duct (that large structure in the upper right of the photo); priming/sealing the concrete block walls, erecting stud walls in front of said block walls and adding 2" thick styrafoam insulation (which is what the blue stuff is on the left side of the picture).

Like I said, I'm working on the layout to take a break from remodeling.


As an interesting aside, the work tables that the frame is sitting on are the two modules from my last layout project (which was aborted before I got too far with it... left a job and had no money, so...). The two modules consist of a tabletop on two shelving units. The two modules bolt together to make a layout twelve feet long by two and-a-half feet wide. The tabletops also bolt to the shelves, so they can either be moved in one piece, or if need be, broken down into three pieces. The tabletops are constructed of 1/2" plywood and are based on Dave Barrow's idea of building "dominos" for layout modules that he used on one incarnation of the Cat Mountain & Santa Fe.

Here's a detail shot of one of the modules to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about...




I am currently planning on scrapping the dominos (well, not scrapping per se, I'll probably re-use the plywood) and building two new open-grid modules for my next home layout. (In fact, if you look on the left side of the photo of the Relay For Life Frame, you'll see some 1x4s leaning up against a section of the stud wall. So... my On30 empire begins as well.

** INSERT EVIL LAUGH HERE **

More pics and updates to come.