More Cab Signals Only

Jersey_Mike wrote:

About the lunar whites: As stated above, the rest of the signals in 562 territory between Wayne and Carmel (and possibly the signals on the Fox Chase Line, and Neshaminy too) will only display the following aspects:

Proceed Cab (steady lunar over red)
Diverging Cab (flashing lunar over red)
Stop Signal (red over red)

This is insane. What are they going to do in case of CSS failure? I hope somebody smaks them and makes them at least use NORAC indications at the interlockings. I guess I'd better get out and take a ride on the main line before esignaled Nthey utterly destroy it. You know, before this I even thought SEPTA was cool for keeping the Ovular RDG style restricting heads and LEDing the old masts. WTF got into them to go to transit style signaling? Maybe there's a plan to seperate the Regional Rail into some sort of transit like a la the old R8 to Newtown.

Frankly, I doubt they'll go through this the lunar white thing as they would have already used it on the Fox Chase (I mean why install a dual head Unilens if you're going to move to a R/L/R affair). Even then I think they'll run into trouble with LW standing for restricting in the rest of the rail world. They also just resignaled NEWTOWN JCT with standard NORAC's (including new ABS exit signals) so at least they realize the importance of waysides on the trunk line.

They can convert the Cab Speed aspects to lunar white on an as-needed basis. And there are no *exit signals* per se; Newtown Jct. only displays Cab Speed, Restricting, or Stop Signal now, with the home signals at Wayne the next ones southbound, and Tabor Jct. the next ones northbound.

In the event of CSS failure, they will simply issue Form D's....there are rules to cover for operation in a case like that.

Think of Metro-North, where they have nothing but signals at interlockings, and Rule 562-like operation systemwide (I don't know the equivalent Metro-North rule number). I believe the only signal aspects they have are "Terminal Proceed", "Proceed Cab", and "Stop Signal" (Dutch, if you're here, feel free to correct me)....

Although I do agree about the lunar white. The Cab Speed aspect pretty much does the same thing that the two lunar aspects do, and the lunar also turns the railroad more into a subway-type operation...

PARailWiz wrote:Incidentally, can someone explain the difference between the crossover and diamond splits, please?

The crossover is simply a regular crossover between tracks; the diamond did not allow for a crossover move, it just runs through any intervening track, with moving frogs to make the ride smoother than a conventional diamond.

Of course, we know just how smooth it is right now!

They can convert the Cab Speed aspects to lunar white on an as-needed basis. And there are no *exit signals* per se; Newtown Jct. only displays Cab Speed, Restricting, or Stop Signal now, with the home signals at Wayne the next ones southbound, and Tabor Jct. the next ones northbound.

They installed a new LED block signal (44) for trains running southbound. Why would they do that just to take it down again?

Here's a picture of it: http://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics ... t-sig.html

In the event of CSS failure, they will simply issue Form D's....there are rules to cover for operation in a case like that.

And watch your rush hour go to hell when that happens.

Think of Metro-North, where they have nothing but signals at interlockings,

But Metro-North also has an absolute block indication, just like every other 562 installation before SEPTA came along. On the LIRR is flashing |, on NORAC is the 'C' signal.

Jersey_Mike wrote:

They can convert the Cab Speed aspects to lunar white on an as-needed basis. And there are no *exit signals* per se; Newtown Jct. only displays Cab Speed, Restricting, or Stop Signal now, with the home signals at Wayne the next ones southbound, and Tabor Jct. the next ones northbound.

They installed a new LED block signal (44) for trains running southbound. Why would they do that just to take it down again?

SEPTA did just that. They only installed it because it replaced the original block signal at the same location when they installed the new signals there before cutting Rule 562 in.

When they established 562 running from Wayne to Tabor, the new signal 44 (along with the other automatic signals involved) was no longer needed, and indeed it did get taken down.

As for the absolute block operation, I do think it was shortsighted of SEPTA not to have the "Clear To Next Interlocking" lunar aspect in addition to the signals. But even with that option, the rush hour would still go to hell if there was a cab signal failure, since only one train at a time could be in any block between interlockings. So Form D's would work just as well.

Form D's are cumbersome to work with. With 'C' signals you can pull up whatever route and display the signal. No need to copy and repete. God damn SEPTA, they used to be cool. You know, both NJT and the MTBA insist on block signals and NJT has CSS on virtually its entire system.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Form D's are cumbersome to work with. With 'C' signals you can pull up whatever route and display the signal. No need to copy and repete. God damn SEPTA, they used to be cool. You know, both NJT and the MTBA insist on block signals and NJT has CSS on virtually its entire system.

Either way, you can only have one train at a time in the block, whether via 'C' signal or Form D. Same delay time, of which some would be eaten up while the Form D is given and read back. And either way, we'd be talking cab signal failure, not ABS failure...they can still pull up a route and signal when the block clears.

The Bergen Jct. head-on collision some years ago is what spurred NJT to hasten the installation of cab signalling on their system. If not for that, I believe they still would only have cabs on the Amtrak territory and on the NJCL to Long Branch today...

The Bergen Jct. head-on collision some years ago is what spurred NJT to hasten the installation of cab signalling on their system. If not for that, I believe they still would only have cabs on the Amtrak territory and on the NJCL to Long Branch today...

I'm saying they could have gone 562 and they didn't. Likewise the MTBA demanded that waysides be kept on the NEC north of Providence and on the Boston Line east of Framingham.

Jersey_Mike wrote:

The Bergen Jct. head-on collision some years ago is what spurred NJT to hasten the installation of cab signalling on their system. If not for that, I believe they still would only have cabs on the Amtrak territory and on the NJCL to Long Branch today...

I'm saying they could have gone 562 and they didn't. Likewise the MTBA demanded that waysides be kept on the NEC north of Providence and on the Boston Line east of Framingham.

Well, that's probably as much because the MBTA is a conservative operation, as much as anything. Most of our commuter rail coaches (built well after the Silverliner IVs) are still all-manual doors.

The Boston Line from Framingham (CP-21 east) is actually owned by Massachusetts (although dispatched by CSXT), as is the NEC within Mass. (although dispatched by Amtrak, who also paid for the upgrades for 150-mph service). On the Boston Line, there are no cab signals east of CP-21 on the MBTA owned section, as I recently learned:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17214

As for the NEC, I haven't spent enough time around that line to know.

Jersey_Mike wrote:I'm saying they could have gone 562 and they didn't. Likewise the MTBA demanded that waysides be kept on the NEC north of Providence and on the Boston Line east of Framingham.

Cab signals end at Framingham anyway...Conrail never installed them from there to Beacon Park. That's per my final Conrail ETT and current CSX ETT. And to clarify to the post above, the entire NEC, Boston to Washington, DC has cab signals, with the only 562 territory on some segments between New Haven and Providence.

And thus, I've made my 500th post here. I've got to get here more often!

Silverliner II wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:I'm saying they could have gone 562 and they didn't. Likewise the MTBA demanded that waysides be kept on the NEC north of Providence and on the Boston Line east of Framingham.

Cab signals end at Framingham anyway...Conrail never installed them from there to Beacon Park. That's per my final Conrail ETT and current CSX ETT. And to clarify to the post above, the entire NEC, Boston to Washington, DC has cab signals, with the only 562 territory on some segments between New Haven and Providence.

And thus, I've made my 500th post here. I've got to get here more often!

I gotta read my posts after I write them. I meant to include the "cab signals only go to Framingham!"

Congrats on the 500 posts, unless that's not something we're supposed to be pround of!

octr202 wrote:Congrats on the 500 posts, unless that's not something we're supposed to be pround of!

LOL, no that's a good thing....I realized a while ago I've been neglecting my hobby thanks to work. And that's so ironic, since my work is part of my hobby!

I always wondered why the cab signals never filled the gap between CP-21 and Amtrak just past Back Bay....I guess Massachusetts ownership had a part in that. I never knew the state owned that section of track.

with the only 562 territory on some segments between New Haven and Providence.

And between HUDSON and A. Of course there are so many interlockings it dosen't really matter.[/quote]

Jersey_Mike wrote:

with the only 562 territory on some segments between New Haven and Providence.

And between HUDSON and A. Of course there are so many interlockings it dosen't really matter.

[/quote]

I forgot about Hudson to A! But you're right, it's pretty much interlocking after interlocking all the way in that stretch....they're practically blocks in and of themselves.