Metro North WOH Rail Options Using the Tappan Zee Bridge TZB

Senator Gillibrand is quoted saying another $750 million is available beyond the $1 billion for the commuter rail bridge over the Hudson. The key is getting the railroad broken out from the road portion to get that FTA money.

Yes, but the project, including the rail portion is expected to cost around $12 Billion. So far, what Gillibrand has mentioned is only like 10% of the total estimated cost. The MTA and the Thruway Authority are both statutorily limited to taking out $2Billion in bonds for a project. So that leaves the project $6.3 Billion short. The NYS legislature could kick in maybe another $3 Billion directly, but with the state's finances as they are, I kind of doubt it. The Feds could take their $3Billion from the now canceled ARC project and put it toward this project, but it's questionable whether this project has as much total value as the ARC project did. Though with both cars and rail on this bridge, it is more likely to get bi-partisan support. In the end, this project is so huge (though certainly necessary in my opinion) that I wonder how far it can proceed in this current economic climate.

Josh, I did not know of the bonding limts, so thanks for that information. I am optimistic that we can get the railroad bridge built over the Hudson. We have a new Gov. coming into once in January and I hope he will make the bridge a priority. The suburbs support the project, the current bridge is past its 50 year life span, NYC should support the bridge for bringing WOH residents into their jobs in the city. Sen. Gillibrand is pushing hard for federal funding and I hope Chuck Schumer joins her in pushing for the $1.75 billion or more that is available. Lets seize the moment!

JoshKarpoff wrote:Yes, but the project, including the rail portion is expected to cost around $12 Billion. So far, what Gillibrand has mentioned is only like 10% of the total estimated cost. The MTA and the Thruway Authority are both statutorily limited to taking out $2Billion in bonds for a project. So that leaves the project $6.3 Billion short. The NYS legislature could kick in maybe another $3 Billion directly, but with the state's finances as they are, I kind of doubt it. The Feds could take their $3Billion from the now canceled ARC project and put it toward this project, but it's questionable whether this project has as much total value as the ARC project did. Though with both cars and rail on this bridge, it is more likely to get bi-partisan support. In the end, this project is so huge (though certainly necessary in my opinion) that I wonder how far it can proceed in this current economic climate.

Could the legislature create a new authority specifically for the bridge-- a Tappan Zee Bridge Authority, that would be authorized to raise funds and collect tolls on the structure? That might be one way around the funding difficulties.

I think they'd be better off selling the bridge to the PA, and let the PA lease the rail portion back to the MTA. The MTA can't afford more debt, and neither can NYS. The debt service must be a huge chunk of the budget(s); at least, that's what the TSTC screams a lot in their newsletters. Or is it Straphanger's?

You could actually, and I've thought about this, since the PA owns Stewart, sell the PJ line in NYS to the PA (NJT could do that with the Main/Bergen portion, too), as well as the PV. The PA could pay the MTA to operate it.

Heck, let's sell Rockland and Orange to NJ.

The issue there, though, is the roads leading to the bridge would remain in NYSTA hands. But that would be the same with any other authority you'd put in place.

The bridge would not be MTA or PANJ&NJ (to far north) the bridge would still be NYS thruway administration but with MTA leasing space on bridge.
why they even got Steward Airport is beyond me.
The Port Authority was just that, a company to manage port and infrastructure of port of New York and New Jersey.

They should probably electrify with third rail up to Harriman. There are alot of users there and also from Orange County.For rush ours, Stopping at suffern [drop Sloatsburg], Route 303, Palisades Mall Park and Ride [where people now go for TZX Bus], Nyack and then over the new bridge and down the bridge, with stops possibly at Yonkers or Marble Hill and then to 125 and GCT. Also Port Jervis line could have transfer to the MUs in suffern or use dualmodes express to GCT. Electrification, because there is a huge [potential] market.

Dutch, I agree with you, but like you said, they brought Stewart. I know how it is, but it's a possible solution.

Letting the PA of NY & NJ work outside the box we only create another nightmare like the MTA.
Some agencies get way to big and way to unmanagable.
The Tappan Zee bridge is a NYS thruway venture and it should stay that way,.

The Gov-elect of Ohio is canceling that state's high-speed rail project! Our Gov-elect Andy Cuomo said he wants that money and will apply to the FTA to get it! Andy said some of that money should go to building the new Tappan Zee road-rail bridge. Check out the story on the 1010WINS web site. "A new Tappan Zee Bridge carrying cars and trains would be the largest public works project in the nation, putting thousands to work, at a time when thousands need to work." I like this guy.

Like I said, Dutch, I agree, especially regarding the PA being too big.

As for getting this money for rail, that's great, but are we going to lay the tracks on the water? The bridge has to be built as well. It's not quite putting the cart before the horse, but it's close.

Peter King is in favor of this project ?

You have to remember the POLITICAL reasons about where the original bridge was located. The Tappan Zee Bridge is about as far south as possibly can be WITHOUT falling under the jurisdiction of the PA NY&NJ. The entire siting of the bridge between Nyack and Tarrytown, crossing at the lower end of Haverstraw Bay (which is the widest point in the entire river) is not exactly the most logical place for a bridge. The Thruway Authority didn't want the Port Authority to have jurisdiction over any part of the Thruway, so they built the bridge as far south as they could without involving the PA. If I learned anything working in government, it's that agencies with any sort of overlap in jurisdiction do not play well with each other. To think that anything has substantially changed between the PA and the Thruway Authority is naive.

A replacement bridge will indirectly help the PA. 1) It will help reduce truck traffic load on the GWB if the rail line gets built, because there will be less car traffic on the TZB, meaning less wasted truck driver time sitting in traffic. This will help reduce the wear and tear on the older GWB. 2) Connecting MNRR's East of Hudson and West of Hudson lines will make Stewart Airport a more viable airport for more Hudson Valley and NYC residents. If the project for a rail connection between the PJ Line and the airport goes through, travelers will theoretically have a one seat ride from GCT to Stewart Airport AND a 2 seat trip between JFK and Stewart (via ESA). Cross region mobility will be greatly improved. So while the PA will benefit indirectly, I don't see the Thruway Authority inviting them onto their turf (at least willingly).

Considering the elevation of the Hudson Line and the Tappan Zee Bridge how would they connect the Hudson Line tracks with the tracks on the new TZB? After looking on Google Maps it doesn't seem like they have that much room on the eastern end with development all around.

that question has been discussed a few times in preceding 16 pages.