• Mending the Montauk Branch Delay Mess

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by dedm30junk
 
Trains 2716 and 2718 only had 4 cars each and the passengers was packed like sardines with no room anywhere.Train crews unable to collect fares and they could not get out of the cab cars because of overcrowed passengers blocking the doors to get of out cab cars.Last week Train 2716 had 6 cars and train 2718 had 5 cars but the train was still crowded but at least the crew did their job.
  by Amtrak7
 
Today was another mess...

2706 broke down @ Sayville, terminated. What resulted...

2768 held west of Sayville, then (62min late) took 2706's passengers to Patchogue where they were bused east. How did the train move east if the disabled train was ahead of it though?!
2707 15min late
2771 canceled
2736 canceled in Babylon
2709 cancelled. Not a mention of shuttle buses, so I guess plenty were left stranded.
2743 18min late
2774 canceled
2745 96min late and will terminate at Patchogue for bus service.

The alerts continue.
  by lirr42
 
It wasn't very pretty out there today. Surprisingly, they had everything cleared up in time for the evening rush. 2712 and 2740 were delayed slightly and my ride home on 2716 arrived pretty close to on-time.

But its events like these that highlight just how vulnerable the LIRR is in single-track territories.
  by Amtrak7
 
lirr42 wrote:But its events like these that highlight just how vulnerable the LIRR is in single-track territories.
Sayville isn't even single track. Although the lack of a crossover between Sayville and Babylon and the unidirectional signaling system can be very cumbersome.

Whenever I get an email about a diesel train delayed due to equipment problem at an outlying station I cringe. No matter the line, they tend to turn into huge messes quite easily.
  by lirr42
 
Where was the disabled train? In Sayville Station or just to either side (the single tracking begins almost immediately to the east of Sayville).

There is a crossover from track 1 (WB) to track 2 (EB) a little to the west of the station and between Islip and Great River, but that doesn't help if the train got stuck at the eastbound platform.

But yes, the unidirectional signal system is a troublesome obstacle, but that could be overcome by doing things the "old fashioned way," but even that doesn't fix things.

There is no real solution, except maybe buying some more reliable equipment ;-)
  by Backshophoss
 
You have 2 hand thrown crossovers between Babylon and Y block station,both are trailing point(a reverse move to crossover),
then you are running under Manual Block rules against the current of traffic(running east on track 1 the WB track,for example).
While the MP-15's are battle weary,Keeping 1 at PD the other at Speonk could help get disabled trains out of the way in single
track territory.
  by Amtrak7
 
Are these the only noninterlocked switches between mainline tracks in signaled territory? (excluding sidings, yards, etc.)
  by SwingMan
 
Yes, one is about 500ft west of the second crossing west of Sayville, and the other is about a quarter mile west of Great River station.


BTW there usually is a protect engine in Speonk. Not saying there was one for yesterday, but there is one there a lot of times.
  by lirr42
 
Amtrak7 wrote:Are these the only noninterlocked switches between mainline tracks in signaled territory? (excluding sidings, yards, etc.)
I think so, there are two more on the Lower Montauk, but that's in MBS territory.
  by EM2000
 
What's "MBS Territory"? No, Manual Block rules are no longer in effect on the Lower Montauk, which are now Secondary Tracks.
  by lirr42
 
lirr42, for the [url=http://thelirrtoday.blogspot.com/]The LIRR Today[/url] wrote:Mending the Montauk Branch Delay Mess, Part 2

These days, in our look into the Montauk Branch delay mess, most of our focus falls on the hideous delays that tend to build up on Sundays. In the past couple months the LIRR has had quite a few Sundays they would probably like to forget. There is usually one or two things that go wrong and then the entire day is ruined.

Compounding delays is just one of the hazards of single-tracked territory. And, unfortunately, there's very little that the LIRR can do about it. Double tracking from Sayville to Montauk will never, ever, ever, ever happen. It's way to far for way to few people.

So if there's no real way to stop delays from compounding once they get rolling there's only two things the LIRR can do:
  • Stop the original delay from happening in the first place.
  • Build in measures to lessen delays once they get started.
The second one of those two is a tricky bit. For the most part, the only way to stop delays once they get going is to have a buffer built into the schedule. This concept, called "schedule padding" is a double edged sword...

...[But] it looks like schedule padding isn't going to fix our problems. So that leaves us with option 1: stop the original delay from happening in the first place.

"No kidding. Sherlock, but how do we do that?" you might say. Unfortunately, there is no real way to figure that out. It's really a matter of luck. Hopefully, the scheduling gurus will keep tinkering with the schedules until we can finally get to the point where no train is extraordinarily delayed.

Take the Friday afternoon migration of thousands of Long Islanders and city dwellers to the Hamptons. If I had this blog this time last year, chances are I would be talking about how atrocious the Friday afternoon delays were. In previous years the Friday evening trains were often the most egregiously delayed.But, for the most part, this year the Friday trains have been very, very well behaved. Their improvement over last year is nothing short of phenomenal.

"Okay, you got me going, how did they do it?" Well, they accomplished option: they stopped the original delay from happening in the first place.In years past, the culprit--that first delay that got the ball rolling--was frequently one train in particular. The Cannonball. More often than not, the Cannonball would be so delayed that it would ruin the hope of any other train possibly arriving anywhere close to "on time" for the rest of the night.

You see, the pre-2013 Cannonball was always scheduled to arrive Jamaica at 4:22pm and leave at 4:25pm. That means they left three minutes--only three bloody minutes-- at Jamaica to get hundreds and hundreds of people off of Penn and Brooklyn connections and cram them into 12 C3's. I can bet that it was darn near impossible to get all those people off the connections, across the platforms, onto the C3's, seated, and all passengers and overflow thereof firmly inserted into the car's vestibule within 180 quick seconds.

And there it was. They weren't 20 minutes into the journey and the train was already ten minutes down...and then it only gets worse form there. Those 10 minutes eventually compounded into 20 minutes, then 40, then 80, then 160, and then the rest of the evening's down the toilet.

But all that has pretty much gone away. I must say, I was a bit skeptical at first when the news came out in April that the Cannonball's western terminus would be moved to Penn Station and the Jamaica stop would be dropped. But, as it turns out, the move was nothing short of brilliant. Without having that pesky Jamaica stop delaying things, the train can now get all the way to the Hamptons without suffering any serious initial terminal delay.

All in all, it looks like the changes made to the Cannonball plus some well placed schedule padding have all but cured the Friday evening delay mess. Now it's not perfect, by any stretch. Perfection is not to be expected of a single-tracked MBS rail line with all that many people. But the delays are nothing like last year's. They're reasonable--10-20 minutes.At this point in the year, the worst delay to the Cannonball has been only 20 minutes (and that was on the very first day). That's right, 20 minutes was the longest time the Cannonball was delayed so far this year. And the train has even arrived "on time" twice! The average delay to the Cannonball from Memorail day weekend through two weeks ago was only 9.8 minutes. That's pretty impressive for a train that would frequently score ten times that amount of delay minutes this time last year.

And that outstanding OTP performance has made all of the trains that follow the Cannonball perform much better as well.

So it looks like the Friday evening rush has been "cured" (or as good as it is going to get). But how do we now fix the Sunday mess? Unfortunately, it is difficult to pinpoint one specific troublemaker. Over the next week I will take a more through look through the OTP records for the Sunday Montauk trains and I will report back soon...

For more information on this topic, see Mending the Montauk Branch Delay Mess Part 1.
Read the full post here: Mending the Montauk Branch Delay Mess, Part 2
  by bellstbarn
 
Unless I am mistaken, the Patchogue-Babylon scoot 8767 was only three or four cars a few years ago. These photos show the crowd awaiting it at Bay Shore on Sunday afternoon, August 11, 2013. The crew of the six-car train patiently made certain everyone got aboard, and I saw none of the crammed vestibules of previous years. The ride to the connecting train at Babylon is 6 minutes, and that trip is carded for 75 minutes. I wonder whether David's vans can match that speed in Sunday westbound traffic.

Image
Bay Shore 2013 by sphoto33, on Flickr

Image
Bay Shore 2013 by sphoto33, on Flickr

Image
Bay Shore 2013 by sphoto33, on Flickr

The sign points to a closed underpass!
Image
Bay Shore 2013 by sphoto33, on Flickr
  by dedm30junk
 
This is for bellstbarn...You need to park yourself at Westhampton train station on a Sunday afternoon and watch the parade of trains heading west and see how crowded all the westbound trains heading to Jamacia and not the Patchogue scoot. Its a big difference from a train coming from Montauk than a train coming from Patchogue and only going as far as Babylon. Also you should see all the eastbound trains going to Montauk on a Friday evening with some of the trains with only 4 cars going to Montauk at PEAK times and than post some photos of the packed and crammed cars going east.
  by bellstbarn
 
Many thanks for the suggestions. It's been years since I've been out there to watch trains. Joe
  by lirr42
 
Not a good day on the rails this afternoon. I had two classes downtown this afternoon so I started my trek east from Penn Station. Arriving there around 4:50pm, I saw that train 2714 (the 5:09p train from NY to Montauk) was already posted on the departure board for track 19. Deciding against it, I instead boarded train 152 as far as Jamaica (I was meeting up with my wife at Jamaica and we were going to head out east later on in the evening). That train left at 5:13pm. When we were passing though HAROLD we overtook 2714 on the track to our left. When we passed 2714 the rear DM did not sound happy.

Nonetheless, we arrived at Jamaica on track 8 and the Montauk train was due in across the platform on track 7. After a couple minutes of lingering around the train seemed missing in action. After a few moments, the destination boards switched quickly to the 5:38pm train to Hempstead and an electric train snuck in on track 7. The train arrived and the passengers waiting on the platform seemed perplexed. The conductor on the Hempstead Train said that this was the train to Hempstead not Montauk at least 9 times (and I bet there were still some people who got on by mistake).

So I whip out my phone and I take a look at the latest stream of text alerts from the LIRR (I get more texts from the LIRR than my wife these days), and as it turns out 2714 bit the dust west of Woodside.

But the fun doesn't end there. Later on Amtrak7 informs me that they mysteriously canceled 666, presumably to furnish equipment for the limping 2714 (which had gotten on the move after 43 minutes of sitting west of Woodisde on track 2). This was later confirmed by an alert saying that passengers would be "receiving substitute equipment at Jamaica." Things would only get worse from there considering 2714 had a very full 8 car consist and 666's set would be no more than 6 cars, if that. 2714 is now making its way east, last reported it was 66 minutes late.

But 2714's story would not end before running everything else for everybody as there were a whole slue of delays due to congestion. Adding to the fun, there was police activity near Amityville, so there were added delays because of that as well (2714 probably also commandeered 666's track slot on the mainline Jamaica-Hicksville).

2716 left Jamaica 26 minutes late absolutely packed to the gills (probably had some runoff from 2714's load too). I am currently on 2718. Every seat is full but there aren't too many standees in my car. We left Jamaica on time but it has been slow going thus far, hopefully I can make it home tonight. Fingers crossed!

EDIT: The Babylon Branch can't catch a break tonight, 170 is currently delayed in Baldwin due to a customer in need of medical assistance.