M-2 Cosmopolitans at 40

I guess you could say that the tomato cans have been on the shelf past their experation date.

pbass wrote:Say what you like Japp,without the M2's,we would not have jobs.

Without the M-2's you folks and myself included back in the 70's as well would still have had jobs. They could have been designed better but there were some reasons for their shortcomings. During the period of their design and entrance into service the viaduct leading to the tunnel was not in as good condition as it is today and there were weight restrictions that were incorporated into the specs for these cars just like they were incorporated into the design of various other motors and equipment. They could have had better floors, solid axles (the original ones were hollow and wheels fell off at various times while the trains were in motion (remember on landing in a backyard in Southport) and other factors involved in the design. My biggest fault with these cars was the design of the engineer's cab, it reminded me of a broom closet and at least during much of my time in New York they were usually filthy and this was quite a few years ago when the cars were still fairly new. I can only imagine how these cars are to work on today. When these cars were new I would never have imagined that they would last this long so I guess they were at least a little bit better than I thought at the time. That they have lasted this long is certainally a credit to the people whom have maintained and operated them all these years, I ran my last Metro-North train in 1987 and even at that time the M-2's were a yes or no affiar, sometimes they would run good and sometimes they were terrible and you never really knew until you got out on the road with them.
Noel Weaver

Noel: you recall the electrical fires in the EP5's & the pre-WW2 mu's in 1973.How long would the NH line continue to operate with defective equipment most of it due for retirement? The 4400 series mu's, many had seen better days,were the backbone of the rolling stock until the M2's were accepted.I imply without MTA/CDOT intervention,not too many of us would have been employed so the M2's were a saving grace.They served us well under the harsh conditions they were put through and have now outlived their usefulness.

Thanks for confirming our earlier statements in your last sentence.

I agree that new equipment was badly needed although the 4400's could have lasted longer with proper care and maintenance. My complaint is with the design of the things. Why didn't they come up with full width cabs in the first place? More than one engineer was injured by flying objects because he or she had nowhere to escape when something came at them. Funny how Metro-North is going from miserable cabs to relatively decent cabs while SEPTA in Philadelphia is going from full width cabs to "broom closet cabs". OH well.
Noel Weaver.

For quite some time, traditional EMU's used the vestibule as a full-width cab when the car was leading, and the doors were locked out and passengers didn't use that area. What spurred the gov't agencies to start designing tiny little cabs like the M2's and Metroliner EMU's had? Or is this just a product of the "malaise era" design that seemed to plague just about every gov't funded EMU from 1965 to 1975?

Those "broom closets" were meant to seat 2 more riders when not in use by the engineer and the train crews,hence,the window in the cab door,and the engineer's seat would fold so the door could be positioned over the control stand and then the seat would be returned to it's position for seating.This option was never utilized just as the safety chains werenot that were located behind their door on the nose of the car.N.Y.subway/commuter trains are intended to provide a service life of 30-40 years,they are not turned in for new trains every 3 three years when the lease is up as some people do with their automobiles.These trains operate every day,year after year,with plenty of miles on them,carrying many people in all kinds of weather.Due to their sophistication and abuse,the reliabilty that was engineered in the original design becomes less available with age.The M2's longevity is attributed to their eye appealing esthetics and the integrity of those in M of E whose charge is to keep them rolling.As for their being "roach coaches",the riding public is to blame for leaving their enticing delicacies behind that attract the pests instead of dispossing the garbage in a trash bin where it belongs.As I've said: the M2's have outlived their usefulness.Under these constant conditions,in a few years,the "newbies" will be making the same unsatisfactory complaints about the M8's while anticipating the arrival of the new M10's.[side note not necessarily directed to the M2 forum:Noel,you had years on the job prior to the Penn Central merger and could seek your level.Those of us who were hired by the Metropolitan Region wouldnot have that option had it not been for the infusion of public monies to fund the commuter operations which included a rail car to attract riders.The only thing PRR & NYC management could agree on was they didnot want the NH or be burdened with passenger business regardless of the type and did what they could to discourage it's use.] Joe Carella

Tad, MNCR piggy backed off the LIRR with the M-7 procurement. Back when the M-7's were in the developmental stages, the meeting of the minds (transportation, MofE, engineering) got together. Transportation lobbied for a full length cab, while MofE and engineering saw it un-necessary. The BLE as well fought for full length cabs and essentially won. The only person(s) who have any business being near an operating quarters are people involved in train movement (C&E) and their respected supervisors (DSLE's, Line Supt's, etc.) It's also a safety hazard for the engineer in the event there is potential for a head on collision at a grade crossing and people are crowding the headend making it almost impossible for a safe escape.

pbass wrote:Those "broom closets" were meant to seat 2 more riders when not in use by the engineer and the train crews,hence,the window in the cab door,and the engineer's seat would fold so the door could be positioned over the control stand and then the seat would be returned to it's position for seating.This option was never utilized just as the safety chains werenot that were located behind their door on the nose of the car.N.Y.subway/commuter trains are intended to provide a service life of 30-40 years,they are not turned in for new trains every 3 three years when the lease is up as some people do with their automobiles.These trains operate every day,year after year,with plenty of miles on them,carrying many people in all kinds of weather.Due to their sophistication and abuse,the reliabilty that was engineered in the original design becomes less available with age.The M2's longevity is attributed to their eye appealing esthetics and the integrity of those in M of E whose charge is to keep them rolling.As for their being "roach coaches",the riding public is to blame for leaving their enticing delicacies behind that attract the pests instead of dispossing the garbage in a trash bin where it belongs.As I've said: the M2's have outlived their usefulness.Under these constant conditions,in a few years,the "newbies" will be making the same unsatisfactory complaints about the M8's while anticipating the arrival of the new M10's.[side note not necessarily directed to the M2 forum:Noel,you had years on the job prior to the Penn Central merger and could seek your level.Those of us who were hired by the Metropolitan Region wouldnot have that option had it not been for the infusion of public monies to fund the commuter operations which included a rail car to attract riders.The only thing PRR & NYC management could agree on was they didnot want the NH or be burdened with passenger business regardless of the type and did what they could to discourage it's use.] Joe Carella

I used to think of the operator's cab as a phone booth, but I could never figure out where to put the quarters!!

That's a good joke
When I rode next to engineer on New Cannan about 10 years ago
I said jokingly where is the dial tone

That's a good one.Some people thought it to be the lavatory-as when it was the head end and in motion.

The M2 cabs were ok, but the triplet cabs are much better for napping. Not that I would know. ; )

Well one good thing those things did have was a GREAT railfan window Heaven knows how many times I rode into and out of GCT standing up front when I was younger. Haven't done that (at least on a MNR train) in almost 15 years Ahh good memories.

pbass wrote:That's a good one.Some people thought it to be the lavatory-as when it was the head end and in motion.

I can't tell you how many times people would knock on my door thinking it was the bathroom and ask me if I was finished. I usually responded by making a loud fart noise and would say "not yet"!!!

Clean Cab wrote:

pbass wrote:That's a good one.Some people thought it to be the lavatory-as when it was the head end and in motion.

I can't tell you how many times people would knock on my door thinking it was the bathroom and ask me if I was finished. I usually responded by making a loud fart noise and would say "not yet"!!!

Hahahahahahahaha... That's amazing. You should have finished that up by saying ill be done when the train hits Grand Central (or wherever you were going) to throw them off, and then when they would get mad at you and ask why you need so long, just be like "because this is the engineer cab dummies".