LRV questions

I am intrigued about the Boeing LRV and its role on the green line. I have several questions to throw out and I'll be interested to hear back on them.

1. Can the LRV couple with any other type as the type 7 and type 8 with each other?

2. Why were the doors on this type replaced in the late 1990's?

3. Why aren't they in service on the B line anymore?

4. How much more life do they have in them?

Thanks everyone.

I'll throw out a few answers...

1. They can physcially couple, but not MU. Only for purposes of towing/pushing.

2. I suspect reliability as well as safety. The old sliding doors, I recall, did not recycle when someone or something was in the way. There was a lot done to the cars in addition to doors when they were rebuilt.

3. Not sure, but I believe its been talked about on here before a long while back.

4. As much as the lack of servicable Type 8's requires!

DLahey wrote:I am intrigued about the Boeing LRV and its role on the green line. I have several questions to throw out and I'll be interested to hear back on them.

1. Can the LRV couple with any other type as the type 7 and type 8 with each other?

I've seen them coupled to a Type 7's after a breakdown. They cannot operate in service with either type of newer car, though.

2. Why were the doors on this type replaced in the late 1990's?

The old doors were trouble-prone because they were very heavy.

3. Why aren't they in service on the B line anymore?

Not sure if there is a specific reason, other than the MBTA simply doesn't want to run them on that line or the E to Heath Street.

4. How much more life do they have in them?

They don't have too much longer. The MBTA has worked out an agreement with Breda to accept more new Type 8's, so if those cars are delivered and can remain in service without any further mishaps, it is safe to expect that the LRV's will be yanked out of service possibly in 2006.

JD

A couple websites by Scott Moore with more on the LRV's:
Boston's Green Line Crisis

MBTA 3418 fantrip

These answer some more of your questions about the doors. It also mentions that the LRVs have a problem with rolling back during the delay between brake release and power being applied. Thus, I would have to imagine that makes them less than ideal for the hilly B Line.

I am pretty sure in the late 70's early 80's PCC cars could some how hook to a Boeing car.

aline1969 wrote:I am pretty sure in the late 70's early 80's PCC cars could some how hook to a Boeing car.

That's a good question - I'm not sure, because the original LRV couplers were a different design.

JD

Thanks for the informative reponses, keep them coming!
I suppose it would make sense that they could couple with PCC cars given that they were undergoing a transition then.

Another question:

Do the operators like the LRVs? Which is more favorable to them, the type 8 or the LRV? (I know that the type 7 is favorable)

octr202 wrote:The old sliding doors, I recall, did not recycle when someone or something was in the way.

How true! I recall having the doors shut on me as a little kid, about 3 or so, even though it was the front door and the operator was right there. The same once happened with those awful tiny rear doors on a Flyer bus, but that's another story.

I remember that the first time I saw a rebuilt Boeing with the new folding doors, I was pretty surprised, but it made perfect sense to me. The rebuilding was done by Amerail up in Vermont, and I believe 1997 was the year.

I think some operators might like the combined throttle/braking lever in the LRVs, but don't quote me on that. BTW, in case it wasn't mentioned on those websites, some modifications were made to the circuitry to help prevent the rollback problem, and I believe there is a "Rollback Prevention" switch or light on the instrument panel.

The Amerail shop that rebuilt the LRV's was in Hornell, NY.

JD

RailBus63 wrote:

aline1969 wrote:I am pretty sure in the late 70's early 80's PCC cars could some how hook to a Boeing car.

That's a good question - I'm not sure, because the original LRV couplers were a different design.

JD

Yeah, I think so as well, remember seeing a pic w/ a boeing hooked upto a strange looking coupler w/ the caption about hooking to the PCC's, but dunno where that picture was!

PCCs and LRVs could be coupled together (not MU'd, of course) with the use of a coupler adapter, which was just a simple metal casting placed between the two different couplers.

The Rollback switch activates the track brakes.

Could it be that the boeings aren't on the B line because the type 8's are safe from derailment on that line? Also, 7's may rule with 8's on the B because the 7's are able to MU.

Boeings are terrific for D service as they are a much smoother ride.

I miss the old doors on the boeings... truly were my favorite. Plug-type was the name of the doors?

San Diego Transit wrote:Could it be that the boeings aren't on the B line because the type 8's are safe from derailment on that line? Also, 7's may rule with 8's on the B because the 7's are able to MU.

Boeings are terrific for D service as they are a much smoother ride.

I miss the old doors on the boeings... truly were my favorite. Plug-type was the name of the doors?

Boeings were rare on the B Line long before Type 8's entered service. Their later years saw them on the C & D almost all the time.

At times in the recent past, the C has been totally Boeing equipped.

When the Type 8's were exclusively on the C Line a year or so ago there were lots of Boeings put on the B. I think the rollback problem was corrected by the 1990's rebuilding. Right now they're pretty much exclusively on the D because they do high speeds better than any cars in the fleet (Type 7's rock back and forth a bit, whereas Boeings are quite smooth at max speed). Really, that's the ideal place for them. They still see some trace C service, but not as much since the modified Type 8's have come back from the plant.

Boeings were banned from street-running service in the late-80's after a side-impact accident on the E in one of its battery casings electrified the whole exterior of the car (obviously dangerous for both people outside the car and people who may be trying to evacuate from inside the car). So you'll only see them on the E on the days (like bad winter weather days) when the line terminates at Brigham Circle at the end of the reservation. They won't go any further than Brigham in revenue service. They ran out to Heath for short-turns from '76-85 when Arborway was still active, but E service back then was still majority-PCC and I think it's been nothing but Type 7's past Brigham since Heath loop service was restored in 1989. So there weren't many going out there even when they were allowed out there...I think because the side-impact problem was a concern from day one. I do remember seeing a couple last winter after a snowstorm terminated the line at Northeastern, a few more the previous winter when Heath Street was shut down a few days...and lots 4 or 5 years ago when the line was bustituted beyond Brigham Circle for a few months for track reconstruction.