Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

There is a long pent up demand for this service, and piles of opportunity in it, as repeatedly discussed here.

Mr. Bug, there is much more pent-up demand for "Angels-Meadows" (LA-LV) rail passenger service - and there is a "quite intact" existing rail route in place.

I think we all know how far that's gone since '96 when Amtrak last ran a "one a day" over that route.

I was just in the Electric City over the weekend. I have relatives who recently bought a house out that way so if train service existed, I might actually have occasion to use it. But I'm not holding my breath. Scranton seemed exactly how I remembered it - not dead, not bustling, just sort of continuing to muddle along!

It does have a certain charm though - maybe a few more decades of climate change and sea level rise will push people west and turn it into the next major metropolis!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ5Ke9JvVMl ... =copy_link

In it’s heyday, the “Big Little Railroad” took almost 5 hours from their Jersey City Terminal to get to Scranton. I doubt even the magical powers of AMTRAK could come close to that if they were able to patch together such a routing.
My rhetorical question is “Where is this DEMAND for NYC - Scranton (and points in between) service by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation?”

NY&LB wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:30 pm In it’s heyday, the “Big Little Railroad” took almost 5 hours from their Jersey City Terminal to get to Scranton. I doubt even the magical powers of AMTRAK could come close to that if they were able to patch together such a routing.
My rhetorical question is “Where is this DEMAND for NYC - Scranton (and points in between) service by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation?”

Like many of Amtrak's proposals in the region, the Line seems better fit for commuter service based on its length, but the better question for Amtrak is why not avenge the Lackawanna and utilize DLW trackage past Scranton and go to Buffalo? Same thing with the Lehigh Valley for their Black Diamond route. Duplicate lines between two cities aren't a bad thing since it gives different opportunities for travel to the cities in between each route.

A lot of magical thinking on this thread. So, if you do get to Scranton, which most likely won't be by train unless you hop a freight or two, visit the Houdini Museum.

The ROW may be there, but the grading has to be completely grubbed, base removed, all utility crossings inserted into casings, fabric installed, new base installed over fabric, then ties and rail installed, ballast, signal equipment installed, clearance testing. Then maybe service can start?

I've noted numerous times here that there is a fair amount of tourism potential along the route - not just Scranton. Plus at times college students. Plus commuters who either drive or have a long ride on Martz or Greyhound over I80 and I380 - I dread those roads. You don't just start service - you work with the resorts in the Poconos and the ski place in Scranton and Steamtown and Electric City, get shuttles to / from the several colleges and the Scranton hotels.

In regards to the ROW - the hardest part was buying back the ROW. A competent railroad ought to be able to restore most of the 21 miles fairly quickly. Obviously some parts, like the tunnel, are harder. But it shouldn't take the 50 years that NJT was clearly going to take, doing a project no one in NJT cares about. Though commuters in western NJ would like this, and in Stroudsburg, etc. And get Martz involved for some of the shuttles and connections to WB.

And yes, eventually extending to Binghamton and Southern Tier and / or Buffalo. Do you know what it takes college students to get out there by bus? Lots of possibilities if one has a bit of imagination. Also connect to WB and beyond.

Let's first see if NJT decides to finish the Andover segment and when. I say that because NJT started work in 2011 on this 7.5 mile extension and even with EPA-limited work times, this project is proceeding slower than molasses being poured on a cold winter's night.

As a curveball , There is a competent railroad that runs passenger service that's already serving Scranton.
What if, The two states, and a number of private resorts and developers engage Reading and Northern, to restore the line, and work with whoever runs the pocono line (I've lost track) to upgrade it back to at least 60MPH MAS.
I don't know what would be involved in getting their gear to PTC compliance (using leased/assigned as part of operation agreement NJT/Amtrak dual modes? ), but they've proven able to make diamonds from turds, and have a clear sense of loyalty to the region.

If Reading and Northern were to do this they would only need PTC if it was regularly scheduled passenger operations, but there are certain exemptions. I can’t name them off the top of my head though.

The line from Scranton to the Delaware River is currently run by the Delaware-Lackawanna. The line from Scranton to Binghamton is also active. It used to be run by D&H/CP. I think it is now run by NS but I'm not positive. Presumably these railroads are not maintained to high standards. Incidentally, the Reading & Northern is a very nice railroad. Some parts of its mainline are double track and some are welded rail. However, it says its mainline is a 30 MPH railroad so it's probably Class 2. I would guess that the line from Scranton to Binghamton is similar. I have no evidence that either Delaware-Lackawanna nor RBMN has any experience building high speed railroad. The Lehigh line across New Jersey to at least Allentown PA is listed as a 50 MPH railroad. I believe it is now part of NS. NS would undoubtedly be reluctant to allow Amtrak to run there, but Biden bucks could talk loudly. From Allentown to Wilkes-Barre and Scranton there is existing trackage but I'm sure it needs upgrading.
If you want a new or improved railroad built in under a generation, you might consider contacting the PRC. They also have a large railcar business for the road's rolling stock needs. (It also appears that the descendants of GE and EMD no longer make passenger locomotives. (Is this really true??!) Seems like your new railroad would need to use Siemens engines. Seems like China does not yet sell railroad locomotives in the US.

I've ridden the line from Scranton to Moscow aboard a Steamtown excursion. Jointed rail, but in good shape, I'm guessing Class 2 (25 mph freight, 30 mph passenger), maybe Class 3 (40 freight, 60 passenger). It would almost certainly be redone with welded rail, maybe increased superelevation in curves, crossing gates added/upgraded where needed, etc.

The line from Scranton to Binghamton appears to be typical mainline standard with welded rail.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:59 pm As a curveball , There is a competent railroad that runs passenger service that's already serving Scranton.
What if, The two states, and a number of private resorts and developers engage Reading and Northern, to restore the line, and work with whoever runs the pocono line (I've lost track) to upgrade it back to at least 60MPH MAS.
I don't know what would be involved in getting their gear to PTC compliance (using leased/assigned as part of operation agreement NJT/Amtrak dual modes? ), but they've proven able to make diamonds from turds, and have a clear sense of loyalty to the region.

I believe this is what they wanted to do back in the 70's and 80's when Playboy had some sort of casino/resort going on at the time. For whatever reason it failed, I'm not sure why but I read that it was because Playboy wanted to use a different company to operate than the one who actually owned the tracks, so the owner out of spite refused to be a part of the operation.

Overall though, this is unironically the only way we will ever see service on lines like this again. A private company will have to receive some sort of funding from the government to do a limited service, see if it has potential, and then get a proper commuter rail company/system involved and finish the job.

JFJ: Was that the Playboy Great Gorge Ski Resort in McAfee, Sussex County, New Jersey?

From what I recall New Jersey placed TWO casino gambling referendums on statewide voting ballots
during the 1970s - the first was for statewide casino gambling - which was voted down - with Playboy
wanting to construct a casino at Great Gorge one of the prime backers...

The second referendum was for casinos in Atlantic City only - which was approved - Resorts International
was the first one (1979-80?) - which was to revive AC as a gambling based resort that proponents thought
then would be the East Coast's version of Las Vegas...

No one anywhere saw how casino gambling as we know it today would evolve...MACTRAXX