How has your automated experience been?

Tonight's poll on the MBTA web-site was "How has your experience been with stations equipped with the new automated fare system?"

I submitted my vote that it needs improvement. The biggest flaw is the fact that they didn't use turn-styles like New York has. They should have designed them this way, or re-hab existing turnstyles to accept Charlie Cards. I say this because it looks like it is alot easier to slip between the plastic "gates" or "doors".

The poll results showed that almost 50% of riders feel the system needs improvement.

How do you feel?

I feel the same way, I live in Revere so I mainly travel out of Wonderland. There's something about that fare system I dont trust, or maybe its just the MBTA's history, I don't know. It's too early to say, I think. We'll see..

My experience has be fairly good. At least I dont have to wait in a long line for a stupid token. The problem with existing turnstyles is that small teens can sneak under the arms when no one is looking. But a small Charlie Card/Ticket vending machine takes up less room that a large booth for a token vendor. You can stick 10 vending machines in a station and have 7 not operating, but its better than a large booth with a slow person selling tokens. But the major flaw with this is that tourists may not know how to buy Charlie Tickets will slow down lines. But I guess thats what the other vending machines are for.

I disagree on the turnstyle vs. door issue. It is very simple for people to slip under or hop over the turnstyles. Perhaps the doors make it easier for two people to enter "as one", but I have seen that happen many time on the turnstyles and the unmanned rotating doors (e.g. Central Square, Kendall). Some people obviously have practiced a lot and it is quite amazing how smoothly they manage. It is much harder to go over, under, or through the doors as a single passenger I think. However, I am worried about the long-term durability of the system... much more complicated mechanically than the turnstyles.

The huge advantage of the doors is the ease of getting through with baggage. No more lifting the bag over your head, or sliding through on the ground and picking it up later... very convenient, especially for older people who now have to get the attendant's attention to open the gate for them.

Well, at least teh poll on mbta.com allows for a negative choice this time! I think the last one about AFC only went as far as to allow you to vote "no better or worse than before."

From what little I've seen of it so far, I think that the faregates work well. I'm actually eager to see them get installed on the Red Line, if only to avoid "Sudden Turnstyle Induced Groin Discomfort" in the morning crush to get through the few pass reading turnstiles at Harvard.

I do fear, however, that they will be easy to "sneak" extra people through the faregate, though. Also, since you only need to do a fare transaction on one end of the trip, you only have to get away with it once. The Washington Metro also uses gates (not turnstyles), but I think one benefit there is to ride free, you have to pull it off twice, not just once (one the way in and the way out).

As for tourists and non-regulars figuring out the vending machines, well, welcome to the modern age of transit. The "lines of baffled tourists" at the Farecard machines on the Metro in DC is pretty much just one of the accepted norms of life. If my last exeprience in Wasgington is any indication, 25 years from now, we'll still have to have the "customer service agents" helping tourists with the machines.

AznSumtinSumtin wrote:but its better than a large booth with a slow person selling tokens.

So you prefer killing human beings' jobs by replacing them with machines?!?

How about retraining the people that man those booths to assist tourists on how to buy Charlie Tickets and Cards

When I was in Boston in June, I had the pleasure of using the Charlie Card at Logan Airport on the Blue line. Now it took me about all of a minute and a half to figure out how to use the machine [but I'm a semi-expert, having dealt with AFC machines at PATCO, WMATA, and NYCT], and I like the card better than than the bulky visitor's pass I used last September.

The question I have is why wasn't this installed at South Station? If the T was smart, they should have installed the initial Charlie Card machines at North, and South Stations as well as Airport. There they would have gotten a better barometer of how the machines would hold up.

CSX Conductor wrote:

AznSumtinSumtin wrote:but its better than a large booth with a slow person selling tokens.

So you prefer killing human beings' jobs by replacing them with machines?!?

It's called progress. Efficiency. If the T was in the control of businessmen or people who actually knew how to work efficiently, it could sustain a much higher level of service and timeliness for maybe 50%-60% of the cost. Bust the unions. Automate the trains to the highest extent possible. Maintain the equipment much better. Cut the management budget in half so the T isn't so top-heavy. Do we lose "Good Jobs at Good Wages"? Yes. I say that sarcastically because when people say "good jobs at good wages" they mean public jobs where people rarely work but still get much more money then they would deserve if they actually worked.

You get rid of the guy in the toll booth, sure. One guy loses a dead-end job. But the level of service improves dramatically as there are plenty of machines, the T saves money via new riders, efficiency, less fare evaders, etc, and that overpaid token booth job is replaced by higher-paying and more useful fare machine technicians.

"Thats what they said about the "Final Solution" too.. "

That's pretty cold, Dave. Even for me. As much as I care about jobs in Boston, and the rest of the NE, I'd be pretty hesitant to go THAT far! Were talking jobs, not genocide, and I know that both are sore spots for many, I STILL wouldn't go there!
JMHO,
Cosmo

I use the blue line every day and really enjoy the new AFC machines and the new "door type" turn styles. Having a bag the turnstyles were impassable. I am still suprised that there are T service personell to actually help out at the charlie card.

I did witness a fight at the AFC machine at the aquarium. I really couldn't figure out what the problem was. There was a long line and people were starting to get mad that it was going so slow. Plus there is a credit card only machine in the middle and nobody bothered to read the sign.

But a worker can be retrained to teach people how to buy Charlie Tickets/Cards. That is what is being done right now on the Blue Line. People that used to sell tokens are now teaching people how to use those vending machines.

David Telesha wrote:You're right Cosmo - I don't want to go there.. Maybe that was a too strong of a comparison.

What set me off was the "so what" attitude expressed about the worker losing his job - people have families to support and mouths to feed - that deserves more than "so what its progress".

People lost their farming jobs in the 1800's and 1900's as the industrial revolution came, but nobody seems to want to return to that era now.

Maybe that token collector should have finished high school or gone to college. You can't expect that public sector jobs paying twice what people deserve so they can do half the work they ought to be doing are going to last forever.

Actually, let's just let the thread get back on topic and stop bickering... if we're going to stop then there's probably no need to lock it

MODERATOUR'S NOTICE

You now most likely noticed that some "damage control" has been done on this topic. However, be mindful that I'll leave this thread open as long as there's no flaming or attacking of each other. Thanks and let's continue discussing the AFC/token collector differences.

Thanks a bunch