Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

Nothing stops Amtrak from running hospital trains.... It may even be cheaper to move the cars as a separate unit directly from CUS to BEE without the stops or switching at IND.

Backshophoss wrote:But you are moving more deadhead cars and power on the days the Cardinal runs,that's the drawback of no Hoosier State service.

Amtrak used the Cardinal during the IPH Hoosier State days. They have already proven that they can run their hospital trains four times a week (or less - not every Cardinal has hospital cars). It would cause an issue if there was some car or engine that MUST go between Chicago and Indy on a non Cardinal day, but having the Hoosier State is a convenience - not a requirement. Most transfers can wait a day.

Run an extra.

The absurdity of this cannot be dismissed. This was not an emergency, it was the SOP whenever the Hoosier State arrived IND, and when the next NB was The Cardinal:

https://youtu.be/74JNfHFGRM8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The one draw with running hospital trains instead of a Hoosier State is that it doesn’t matter (as much) what schedule it keeps. Cars don’t need to be live or crewed aside from engineer and conductor, they can detour any direction necessary. If Amtrak loses money on its regional trains, this could help reduce that loss.

Oh, maybe I'm wrong. I still think we don't actually know that Amtrak succeeded in driving off IP, but I guess "maybe" is reasonable. Anyway, it's not worth fighting about.

Arborwayfan wrote:... if you're going to say that the IP Hoosier State might still be running if Amtrak hadn't fought it, you need to show some evidence ...

Naw. We just need to not forget the evidence already presented online. A couple of years removed it is easy to forget the struggles that were revealed when IPH was trying to get their equipment approved before launch and the daily struggles they had keeping Amtrak happy. It is easy to be ignorant of what was posted at the time and try to revise the facts that were clearly stated while they were occurring.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:The absurdity of this cannot be dismissed. This was not an emergency, it was the SOP whenever the Hoosier State arrived IND, and when the next NB was The Cardinal:
https://youtu.be/74JNfHFGRM8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not 100% accurate. The IPH Hoosier State was home in Indianapolis. On the day where there was no SB Cardinal, the Hoosier State equipment needed to be moved to Chicago as shown so it would be available for the southbound run. On the day where there was no NB Cardinal, the Hoosier State would run in the morning and deadhead back to Indy with the evening Cardinal (so it would be in place for the next day's run). On the days when the Cardinal ran NB and returned SB the Hoosier State equipment stayed parked in Indy. On the days when the Hoosier State ran NB and returned SB only the Hoosier State equipment traveled. (NB equals WB and SB equals EB in the big picture for the Cardinal.)

John_Perkowski wrote:does Amtrak even know how to run a train by sections anymore?

If necessary I would guess they would run as Extra and assign a 1XXX series train # in the reservation system. Very similar to Thanksgiving service.

So ... My answer is, "Yes".

I can't remember if I posted a like to this video here before or not, and the thread is too long to check. It's the IP Hoosier State leaving Crawfordsville southbound in the dark. For a little 2008 digital camera and no tripod it came out pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m0ac4r8oJ0

I have a few train videos from Norway, mixed in with some waterfalls and some odd little videos my family made.

In 1951 the Monon was running Indy to Chicago in 4'10" for the Tippicanoe and 3'50" for the Hoosier. Not exactly the speed of sound but certainly quicker than the Hoosier State and for that matter The Cardinal.

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/rail ... 9-1951.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Put the rails back and I'm sure Amtrak could do the same. The times you quoted were not via the same route.

Seems to me that that's been the whole point of this discussion--the best routes are gone. What would concern a potential rider is the time schedule (arrival/departure and total journey time) available, regardless of route.

As for the general issue of Indiana's commitment to passenger rail ...
Over $200 million was added to the state budget yesterday to help pay for NICTD's South Shore "Double Track NWI" and the "West Lake" project. $185 million plus $20 million in contingency funds. This is in addition to the regular funding of $12 million per year. A good investment, in my opinion (and I am an Indiana taxpayer).
(The additional money is needed due to an expected decrease in federal funding for the projects.)

I have not seen a suggestion that Indiana will pay Amtrak's demand for the Hoosier State service.

it is a good investment, and it also shows why the Hoosier is a bad investment. For $12m/year operating subsidy, they run 85 train cars over about 90 miles, 70 of that owned. They have 18 stations. They have about 20 trains per day. If one were to assume even distribution and divide up that $12m subsidy, each million buys a year's operation of:

7 powered railcars, average age of 27 years
1.6 daily round trips at 300 miles daily
8.3 miles of track maintenance (entire indiana side, some double track)
1 station maintained and staffed (some)

Now it seems Amtrak wants $3m to keep running the Hoosier. That gets you a three car train, no track, no stations, half a round trip per day. To break that down per million:

1 unpowered coach, average age 30
0.5 daily round trips at 186 miles total daily
0 miles track maintenance
0 stations

It's not surprising Indiana is looking at this and passing hard. This is not a good deal.