• HEADS UP: Heritage Units on NS Southern Tier

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by lvrr325
 
Per the info I saw, NS will paint a group of new GE units, while EMD will paint a group of their units, with the heritage units about equally divided between the two makes.

Given NS has an A-B-B-A set of F-units running their executive train, it's not that much of a stretch. I'm sure they'll run in system wide service, and that means sooner or later on the Tier, or even up the D&H to Albany. Or, with any luck, the LV unit will run south out of Binghamton and somebody can get pictures of it on the former LV or CNJ main.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
lvrr325 wrote: Or, with any luck, the LV unit will run south out of Binghamton and somebody can get pictures of it on the former LV or CNJ main.
Since the Lehigh Line is one of the busiest corridors for NS in the East, I fully expect somebody will catch the LV Heritage unit there.
  by poppyl
 
I don't know if this will add much to the knowledge base but it has been reported elsewhere that the Erie; EL; NYC and PC liveries will appear on the SD70ACe's and LV; PRR; and Conrail liveries on the ES44AC's.

Poppyl
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Still nothing on the Norfolk Southern web site... I guess the first unit will roll out and it will be a surprise! :-)

http://nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/Medi ... 0Releases/

-otto-
  by Tadman
 
I don't really mind the way the UP "interpreted" their heritage schemes. Heritage schemes tend to fall into two categories: the original streamliner scheme contrived by EMD for the customers railroad and applied to E-units and F-units; and the later money-saving look applied to geeps starting around 1960.

Using the MoPac as an example, you've got the fancy blue stripe scheme on the E's and blue dip on the geeps. Although one could apply the blue/white stripe look to an SD70ACe, they're not proportioned in the same way as a cab unit, and the scheme looks a bit awkward. Sometimes the stripes don't fit, and the streamliner concept doesn't quite fit the uber-boxy ACe look. One could also apply the blue dip as a heritage scheme, but that's a bit boring. Ergo, an interpreted scheme would probably be the best.

On the PanAm, the original schemes look good because they went on the original locomotive and the paint scheme was pretty easily translated from E's to geeps. IAIS 513 is also a pretty strict interpretation of Rock colors that worked okay - there's a few corners cut off, but it looks pretty good.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:Still nothing on the Norfolk Southern web site... I guess the first unit will roll out and it will be a surprise! :-)

http://nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/Medi ... 0Releases/

-otto-
Otto, I've gotten confirmation that the heritage units will happen. However, the information about the heritage units was leaked well before NS was ready to release it. We'll just have to be patient while waiting for the official news to be announced.
  by Leo_Ames
 
And here is the news release that Otto has been wanting.

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... itage.html

Looks like the New Haven, Penn Central, Erie Lackawanna, Tennessee Alabama & Georgia, and the Pittsburgh & West Virginia have been dropped and replaced with the Central Railroad of New Jersey, Lackawanna, Illinois Terminal, Interstate, and the original Norfolk Southern taking their places.
Last edited by Leo_Ames on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 6 times in total.
  by tahawus84
 
More units that I expected. Cant wait to see some of them
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Leo_Ames wrote:And here is the news release that Otto has been wanting.

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... itage.html
LOL. You know they just put out that press release to please me. :-) So kind of NS.

-otto-
  by roadster
 
NICE!!!. Got my favorites all picked out. I understand not doing PC or EL units, as much as I'm sure a bunch of us would have liked them. But with the NYC, PRR, Erie, DL&W units, they back the heritage up to those origins. Again, I say, NICCCCCEEE!!!!! BTW, have some one contact Kato, Atlas, Athearn, Intermountain, Fox Valley. I want one each in N scale
  by Leo_Ames
 
I can't say I understand why they didn't do Penn Central. A bit plain and unattractive perhaps, but not much worse than something like the Norfolk & Western paintscheme (And not much different at all from the traditional NS paintscheme that they've used for the past 30 years). It's a major part of their heritage, that while a unhappy time, did much to get the industry to where it is today (Particularly for NS and CSX). I suspect they couldn't get permission to use the name from the corporate remains of Penn Central (American Premier Underwriters), rather than being dropped due to unpleasant memories or due to a simple black paintscheme (Which I suspect is what you were alluding to).

I bet similar reasons also are why the New Haven was dropped from the list from whatever organization that controls the rights now (CDOT?).

Dropping the Erie Lackawanna makes sense in favor of the Lackawanna. The merged line kept the Lackawanna scheme and it does equal justice to both lines now instead of their original plan of doing just the Erie and merged Erie Lackawanna.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
I think it was a good idea for NS to exclude NH and PC from the heritage units. NS owns just a small stub of the NH, and that is currently leased out to a shortline operator. While PC did help create the current RR map in the Northeast, part of the reason for PC's failure was unusually bad management. Creating a heritage unit would only serve to remind us of the infamous green team. I think the NYC and Pennsy heritage units are a better idea. BTW, it is interesting to note the heritage paint jobs on FGLK's locomotives: NYC, LV and CR are represented... but Penn Central is not.

Having an EL heritage unit would have been nice, but I can see the sense in having a DL&W heritage unit. Hopefully, I'll get to see her paired with the Erie heritage unit on the Tier this summer.
  by Alek9997
 
Thank Goodness no Penn Central. The Penn Central logo should be the symbol for failure in modern language.
  by Leo_Ames
 
Sometimes you have to fail to learn.

There's an excellent argument that Penn Central is greatly responsible for what we have now and all the success the industry has enjoyed in recent years. Passenger rail that is funded by taxpayers, Staggers Act and other deregulation of the industry, the eventual death of the micromanaging ICC 20 years later in part due to this disaster, increased positive government involvement in railroading instead of just being viewed as an industry to tax to death (Like all these clearance improvement projects in the East, governments purchasing rail lines to preserve service, etc.), improved working relationships with unions, etc. And they accomplished some good things during all that turmoil as well.

Consolidation at its core was a good idea for instance and likely necessary for the long-term survival of Northeastern railroading (But government and unions tied their hands). And I believe many of the improvement projects the Central had been doing since the 50's were continued as best as finances allowed, such as increased use of computerization and increased acceptance of the piggyback concept. I suspect the list of posititve steps made during the time is a long one and each one is all the more impressive when you realize all the adversity that was going on at the same time. And it's commonly viewed that the primary causes of their failures were out of their hands (Government mandated passenger service that was racking up millions in losses, roadblocks to abandoning their many redundant lines, issues with unions and such that prevented them from trimming their workforce, and Hurricane Agnes solidfying their state as hopeless at a time when there appeared to be a glimmer of hope just as progress started to be made when you read the press at the time).

Plus, I imagine a decent number of CSX and NS workers that have been on the job for several decades got their start on Penn Central in the Northeast. Reminding employees of their past, both the good times and the bad times, isn't a bad idea and I imagine is a major reason for a program like this to increase employee morale, make workers feel proud of all their accomplishments over the years in helping the industry get to this point, etc. And outside of the newspapers, I suspect life went on for most Penn Central workers that went about doing their jobs as well as possible.

Penn Central didn't have a monopoly on trouble, although the size of their failure was far greater than the troubles many of these other lines represented had faced before disappearing (Sometimes for decades, like the Central Railroad of New Jersey). So I'd like to think they just couldn't secure permission to use the name or torpedoed it when they found out they'd have to secure permission and didn't own the name. And from a railfan perspective (Although I imagine there is a lot of nostalgia for that era these days thanks to all the motive power variety, manned interlocking towers being common, lots of steam era infrastructure still around, and many other reasons), at least we're not losing much due to their utilitarian paintscheme.

Good or bad, Penn Central is an important time in their heritage and worth remembering.
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