Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

Arlington wrote:Update on work at Acca Yard that slows trips between Staples Mill and Broad St Richmond ( and, by extension, all trips to Newport News). Full article here:
...

Thanks for the link. That is significant news. There is $117 million of VA state funding for in the FY2016-2021 Six Year Improvement Plan (SYIP) for CSX under "Improvements Richmond to Petersburg for 2 Train Extension to Norfolk and Lynchburg Second Train" but I had not seen any specifics on what the improvements were. The long sought Acca Yard bypass will help not just the Newport News Regional, but all the Amtrak trains traveling south of Staples Mill. The 10 miles of double tracking south of Petersburg is a nice plus for the Carolinian and the 4 LD trains on that route by eliminating one single track bottleneck.

The current FY2016 SYIP has funding for the 2nd train to Norfolk starting in FY2020, but the Virginia fiscal year begins on July 1, so the nominal plan could be to extend a 2nd NFK train in the summer or fall of 2019. The 3rd track project from Arkendale to Powell's Creek north of Federicksburg has to be completed by the summer of 2017 as it is funded by federal stimulus money (which turns into a pumpkin on Sept 30, 2017 if not spent). I would not be surprised to see the time table moved up a year for extending the 2nd Regional to NFK if the bypass and 2nd/3rd track projects are all done by Spring of 2018.

Arlington wrote:Update on work at Acca Yard that slows trips between Staples Mill and Broad St Richmond ( and, by extension, all trips to Newport News). Full article here:
$132 million reworking of CSX's Acca yard proceeding step by step

a $132 million reconfiguration of the yard that started in November and is scheduled to be finished in the spring of 2018, along with other related projects, aims to change that.
“Acca yard’s original main line configuration was that the main lines went straight down the middle of the yard and that made for extremely slow going, including Amtrak trains,” said Peter Burrus, the chief of rail at the state Department of Rail and Public Transportation who worked at CSX for 25 years.
“By creating this bypass, they can get around Acca yard much faster, without the other freight involvement.”
The state will contribute $117 million of the price tag, which also will include double tracking along 10 miles of railroad between Carson and Reams near Petersburg; and three new “crossovers,” which allow trains to switch between tracks at Westover Hills, Walmsley and Colonial Heights.

With the demise of Potomac Yard decades ago, Acca has been thrust into doing a job it was never designed for. It's original purpose was to support the industries in and around Richmond for the RF&P as well as handle interchange to the other carriers in Richmond - the C&O, the ACL, the SCL and the SOU. With CSX all those jobs and associations changed.

The continued expansion of passenger rail service in Virginia is an extraordinary event. It has precipitated major changes in the political climate for additional passenger rail service initiatives elsewhere throughout the South.

To see Virginia continuing to move forward on additional projects, essentially as quickly as the funding cycles will allow, is a major signal of political will and public support that stands behind these projects.

Because Virginia is the connecting piece between the Northeast Corridor and the rest of the South these projects have immense implications for future passenger rail service far beyond the state boundaries. I think to an extent we have not appreciated at times the impact that these changes are having on political views towards passenger rail elsewhere in the South.

People in bordering states are going to be looking at these changes and asking their elected representatives again and again, "Why not us?"

North Carolina already supports one regional train the Carolinian to the NEC, several regional Piedmont trains within the state, and is visited by four long distance trains plus one express Auto Train. They don't apply to the (Why not us?) scenario.
South Carolina is visited by the same long distance and express trains, and they would probably prefer to subsidize a regional train going to Atlanta vs to the NEC which would require finding new rolling stock. They don't have the money to ask (Why not us?). I'm not sure where Georgia would want to subsidize regional trains to. While they have the money to afford new rolling stock, where would they send these trains?
The main advantage Virginia has is location of being immediately south of D.C. and being able to extend existing NEC trains and its rolling stock, a far cheaper train to establish and operate. The other southern states aren't that lucky!

electricron wrote: I'm not sure where Georgia would want to subsidize regional trains to. While they have the money to afford new rolling stock, where would they send these trains?
The main advantage Virginia has is location of being immediately south of D.C. and being able to extend existing NEC trains and its rolling stock, a far cheaper train to establish and operate. The other southern states aren't that lucky!

The I-85 corridor is bursting at the seams. There is huge business and personal travel demand between Atlanta, Greenville, SC and Charlotte. The distance is too short for air travel, and thanks to exploding congestion, too far to comfortably drive. Both Atlanta and Charlotte are showing some early signs of sprawl reduction as well. Over the very long-term, an Atlanta to Raleigh corridor can flourish.

Rail in Georgia is strangled by anti-urban politics. There is a clear need for better connections between Atlanta and the state's smaller cities (Macon, Athens, Columbus), once the state realizes that more roads are not the answer an Atlanta commuter rail hub will take off.

Bob Roberts wrote: The I-85 corridor is bursting at the seams. There is huge business and personal travel demand between Atlanta, Greenville, SC and Charlotte. The distance is too short for air travel, and thanks to exploding congestion, too far to comfortably drive. Both Atlanta and Charlotte are showing some early signs of sprawl reduction as well. Over the very long-term, an Atlanta to Raleigh corridor can flourish.

Rail in Georgia is strangled by anti-urban politics. There is a clear need for better connections between Atlanta and the state's smaller cities (Macon, Athens, Columbus), once the state realizes that more roads are not the answer an Atlanta commuter rail hub will take off.

And South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee and Mississippi don't have any anti-urban, or pro-country politics like Georgia?
Wow, Georgia has the biggest metro in the South! If Georgia can't get urban transport passed locally, why do you think the more rural states can?

Please don't suggest the rural citizens will vote the same as urban citizens, or will even want the same things!

electricron wrote:

gokeefe wrote:The continued expansion of passenger rail service in Virginia is an extraordinary event.. . .

People in bordering states are going to be looking at these changes and asking their elected representatives again and again, "Why not us?"

North Carolina already supports one regional train the Carolinian to the NEC, [two] regional Piedmont trains within the state, and is visited by four long distance trains plus one express Auto Train. They don't apply to the (Why not us?) scenario.
South Carolina is visited by the same long distance and express trains, and they would probably prefer to subsidize a regional train going to Atlanta vs to the NEC which would require finding new rolling stock. They don't have the money to ask (Why not us?). I'm not sure where Georgia would want to subsidize regional trains to. While they have the money to afford new rolling stock, where would they send these trains?
The main advantage Virginia has is location of being immediately south of D.C. and being able to extend existing NEC trains and its rolling stock, a far cheaper train to establish and operate. The other southern states aren't that lucky!

The long-discussed, almost fabled "day train" NEC-Atlanta would link ATL-South Carolina-Charlotte-NEC in daylight, and two or three of those states might, "might", fund it since it would only cost each one a couple million or so (or almost nothing, like the Palmetto). Practical issues put that potential train in the future: Not enuff equipment, no more slots over the Potomac long bridge, and maybe no more slots under the Hudson.

One of the PRIIA studies looked at Charlotte-Columbia-Charleston, a no-brainer on its own or as an extension of one or more Piedmont trains Raleigh-Greensboro-Charlotte. But the PRIIA explained, you can't get there from here. The tracks heading south from Charlotte don't go to Charleston. The tracks coming down from Raleigh don't connect to the tracks from Charlotte. You'd need to build a connection, not long, a few miles, to link the two lines. Otherwise you'd have two (2) different stations in Columbia and the confusion would be a huge problem. You'd hope someone would work on the EIS and plans for that connection, and get it shovel-ready, but I doubt if any useful work of that kind of being done.

Some dreamers in Atlanta keep talking about ATL-Chattanooga, but a stub train connecting to nothing beyond would not be a strong route. In the other direction, ATL-Macon-Savannah-Jacksonville-Orlando is also mentioned. But meanwhile, ATL can't even build a decent station for the Crescent service that it has now.

I am hoping that the successes in Virginia and North Carolina will help get support for extending the CONO from New Orleans to Orlando.

Woody wrote: I am hoping that the successes in Virginia and North Carolina will help get support for extending the CONO from New Orleans to Orlando.

I realize that Amtrak is encouraging southern states to fund returning Sunset Limited east services, but if Amtrak can't find enough Superliners for extending the thrice a week Sunset Limited to Florida, WHERE do you they can find enough Superliners for extending the daily CONO service to Florida?

electricron wrote: And South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee and Mississippi don't have any anti-urban, or pro-country politics like Georgia?
Wow, Georgia has the biggest metro in the South! If Georgia can't get urban transport passed locally, why do you think the more rural states can?

Please don't suggest the rural citizens will vote the same as urban citizens, or will even want the same things!

Anti-urban politics exists throughout the South, the reason why Georgia is different is they have a metro of nearly 6 million people that is increasingly the driver of the entire state's economy -- that geography can't be ignored forever. I never said anything about SC, AL, TN and MS embracing rail, but I did suggest that the SC upstate would benefit from it (particularly access to international airports in CLT and ATL).

Bob Roberts wrote: Anti-urban politics exists throughout the South, the reason why Georgia is different is they have a metro of nearly 6 million people that is increasingly the driver of the entire state's economy -- that geography can't be ignored forever. I never said anything about SC, AL, TN and MS embracing rail, but I did suggest that the SC upstate would benefit from it (particularly access to international airports in CLT and ATL).

The reason why pro-rural policies in the South is because it is mostly rural.

I agree that Georgia can be more pro-urban because Atlanta is so large. But there isn't another very large metro near it to run a regional train to.

SC is mostly rural, and already sees FIVE long distance trains every day, although only four will stop within the state.
(1) Crescent, (2) Palmetto, (3) Silver Meteor, (4) Silver Star, and (5) Auto Train. Every large city in SC is visited by an Amtrak long distance train along three different routes. Golly, South Carolina with the 24th largest state population at 4.7 million sees more Amtrak trains per day than Texas which ranks 2nd at 26.4 million (which is six times larger by the way).

Do you really believe Amtrak wants and needs to send more trains to SC?

electricron wrote: Do you really believe Amtrak wants and needs to send more trains to SC?

When did I save anything about Amtrak wanting more trains in SC? I do believe the upstate would greatly benefit from a daytime corridor train connecting Atlanta and Charlotte. Unfortunately the state of SC is unmoved by the promise of rail, but (as the long distance trains prove) they are happy to be a free rider. Unfortunately the Crescent's schedule, low-frequency and unreliability make it useless for business travel between Atlanta and Virginia.

electricron wrote:

Woody wrote: I am hoping that the successes in Virginia and North Carolina will help get support for extending the CONO from New Orleans to Orlando.

I realize that Amtrak is encouraging southern states to fund returning Sunset Limited east services, but if Amtrak can't find enough Superliners for extending the thrice a week Sunset Limited to Florida, WHERE do you they can find enough Superliners for extending the daily CONO service to Florida?

Back in 2009, Amtrak released a study of restoring service New Orleans-Florida, including a section about why the Sunset East service didn't make good sense (mostly due to horrible time-keeping). But that report said, in any case, Amtrak had no equipment for such a route, so add $80 million or so to the budget for new equipment. So that 2009 study was DOA.

Now with the study released in December 2015, Amtrak says it will have enuff equipment to extend the CONO by the time service could start in 2018 or so. The trains to Orlando will have short consists: locomotive, bag car, sleeper, cafe, coach iirc. Three more consists x 3 bi-level cars for each, including protect cars, it will require only a dozen Superliners. (The other CONO cars will stay in New Orleans and be hitched onto the train incoming from Orlando.)

Amtrak didn't say where it could get 10 or 12 Superliners, but they said they could do it.

The "spare" Superliners would be out of Ca and Midwest state services if and when the State bought cars
finally go online.
There have been some setbacks at the carbuilder,so delivery is unknown for now.

Arlington wrote:Update on work at Acca Yard that slows trips between Staples Mill and Broad St Richmond ( and, by extension, all trips to Newport News). Full article here:
$132 million reworking of CSX's Acca yard proceeding step by step

a $132 million reconfiguration of the yard that started in November and is scheduled to be finished in the spring of 2018, along with other related projects, aims to change that.
“Acca yard’s original main line configuration was that the main lines went straight down the middle of the yard and that made for extremely slow going, including Amtrak trains,” said Peter Burrus, the chief of rail at the state Department of Rail and Public Transportation who worked at CSX for 25 years.
“By creating this bypass, they can get around Acca yard much faster, without the other freight involvement.”
The state will contribute $117 million of the price tag, which also will include double tracking along 10 miles of railroad between Carson and Reams near Petersburg; and three new “crossovers,” which allow trains to switch between tracks at Westover Hills, Walmsley and Colonial Heights.

ACCA yard already has a bypass. It's called the passenger main. It has been there for years. It allows trains headed south to bypass the main yard...assuming CSX didn't park a train on it.

It sounds like someone isn't getting their money's worth.

mmi16 wrote: With the demise of Potomac Yard decades ago, Acca has been thrust into doing a job it was never designed for. It's original purpose was to support the industries in and around Richmond for the RF&P as well as handle interchange to the other carriers in Richmond - the C&O, the ACL, the SCL and the SOU. With CSX all those jobs and associations changed.

Indeed. Although you can't blame the demise of Pot Yard on CSX, they DID downsize Bennings, when they should have expanded operations there.