Future of Septa Regional Rail Fleet

Head-end View wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:58 pm I always thought it was SEPTA policy to have one uniformed crew member per car.........

As somebody who has worked many, many five and six car trains by myself, I can assure you that is not the case. Pre-pandemic, Assistant Conductors floated between crews throughout the day. Now, with many if not all AC runs being married to Conductors, and if that job can't get filled, that's it.

The days of three and four ACs to a rush hour train are by and large over until they get their act together with staffing.

Very interesting...... I haven't ridden SEPTA Regional Rail since probably 2019, before the pandemic. I didn't know things had changed so much.

JeffK wrote:I found this story regarding progress - or lack thereof - on CRRC's work for MBTA's Red and Orange Line cars. Has anyone heard whether there's been similar problems with SEPTA's bi-level order?
https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/veh ... train-deal

Like clockwork, the inky just published an article

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation ... 30302.html

My current favorite out of the article:

At one point last year, CRRC reworked staircases between the lower and upper levels of SEPTA’s cars because the clearance was too low, and many passengers would hit their heads on a panel, agency officials said.

It will be nice to have the CRRC cars in several years, but I don't think SEPTA is in a particular rush at this point. Does SEPTA even have the crews to run them unless SEPTA would use them to replace Silverliner runs?

RCT: With SEPTA RRD ridership around 60 percent of 2019 levels currently SEPTA has enough equipment to provide current service levels...Train crew staffing should be at least adequate remembering that RRD had problems in the past having enough Engineers to provide service - CNJ should know more about this.

The MAIN problem is getting the 44 contracted CRRC multilevel cars built and delivered in the firstplace... With the troubles that the MBTA is having with CRRC fulfilling the contract for their new Orange and Red Line car fleets (see the ongoing topic at the MBTA Forum) and with only two multilevels actually built - the timeline looks to be indefinitely delayed...It may take legal action from SEPTA for a resolution...

SEPTA has enough extra ACS64 motors to provide added RRD P/P trains - as you may know SEPTA tested using push-pull equipment outside of peak hours but each time problems arose on being able to hold the schedule - MU cars are more flexible to provide most of SEPTA RRD's service needs...MACTRAXX

These railroads need to modernize. Yes, high level platforms will cost money, but they will speed things up and require smaller crews to operate trains.

And then there's the ridiculousness of collecting tickets. Proof of payment makes so much more sense, LIRR alone is wasting $250M/year on collecting tickets, which is preventing OPTO. I'm not a huge fan of OPTO for more than the smallest of trains, but railroads should at least be technically capable of it.

Everyone - I came across information about exactly when the first Silverliner Four cars were placed into service...

Back in the mid 1970s SEPTA once issued a publication for Penn Central and Reading Commuter Rail riders
that was titled "SEPTA Signals" - which was a four-page single fold pamphlet...
I will describe this with my device having no scan capability...

In Volume 1 #3 (Spring 1974) on the top of Page 2 is this Silverliner Four mention titled "They're here!"
The first four Silverliner Four cars (part of the RDG single units 9018-9031) made their inaugural run on
May 6, 1974 - passenger reaction was enthusiastic (at that time) and the remaining ten cars were being
placed into service immediately (as reported) with the first of Penn Central's 130 cars due for delivery
in the Summer of 1974 with the entire 144 car (original order) fleet in service by Summer 1975...

There is a black/white photo of RDG car #9018 when it was brand-new included along with mention of
each car's cost of $400,000 - the 144 cars ordered had a price of around $56 million back in 1974.
From a comparison check a 1974 US Dollar is the equivalent of $6.24 cents in 2023 Dollars...
A rough estimate in 2023 dollars would be $2 1/2 million/each or $338 million for 144 cars...

The original RDG single unit cars were all re-numbered back in the late 1990s era - somewhere in the
SEPTA Forum Archives (or elsewhere) there is a list showing the current numbers of these cars...
#9024 was the car wrecked in North Wales back in 1980 for what I believe was the only write-off
of the original 14 RDG cars...If what was #9018 can be located (along with 9019, 9020 and 9021)
there could be a 50th Anniversary something (mention, special trip, etc.) in May 2024...MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:00 pm Everyone - I came across information about exactly when the first Silverliner Four cars were placed into service...

Back in the mid 1970s SEPTA once issued a publication for Penn Central and Reading Commuter Rail riders
that was titled "SEPTA Signals" - which was a four-page single fold pamphlet...
I will describe this with my device having no scan capability...

In Volume 1 #3 (Spring 1974) on the top of Page 2 is this Silverliner Four mention titled "They're here!"
The first four Silverliner Four cars (part of the RDG single units 9018-9031) made their inaugural run on
May 6, 1974 - passenger reaction was enthusiastic (at that time) and the remaining ten cars were being
placed into service immediately (as reported) with the first of Penn Central's 130 cars due for delivery
in the Summer of 1974 with the entire 144 car (original order) fleet in service by Summer 1975...

There is a black/white photo of RDG car #9018 when it was brand-new included along with mention of
each car's cost of $400,000 - the 144 cars ordered had a price of around $56 million back in 1974.
From a comparison check a 1974 US Dollar is the equivalent of $6.24 cents in 2023 Dollars...
A rough estimate in 2023 dollars would be $2 1/2 million/each or $338 million for 144 cars...

The original RDG single unit cars were all re-numbered back in the late 1990s era - somewhere in the
SEPTA Forum Archives (or elsewhere) there is a list showing the current numbers of these cars...
#9024 was the car wrecked in North Wales back in 1980 for what I believe was the only write-off
of the original 14 RDG cars...If what was #9018 can be located (along with 9019, 9020 and 9021)
there could be a 50th Anniversary something (mention, special trip, etc.) in May 2024...MACTRAXX

9020 was the wrecked car: post1029272.html#p1029272
Fleet roster and original/current numbers: https://philadelphiatransitvehicles.inf ... ail-fleet/

Scotty: Thanks for that reply and roster - it has been some years since I last viewed the RRD
fleet list - 9020 was the car in the 1980 wreck in North Wales…I recall seeing a photo of
#9020 someplace - it looked like it was literally torn apart in this mishap…

From the roster for anyone interested in the original 14 RDG cars from 1973-74:
(original and revised number)
9018 - 280
9019 - 400
9020 - Scrapped after North Wales wreck 1980
9021 - 284
9022 - 293
9023 - 294
9024 - 295
9025 - 299
9026 - 301
9027 - 304
9028 - 305
9029 - 408
9030 - 409
9031 - 410

Fifty years of service in 2024 (and counting) speaks for itself…MACTRAXX

Everyone: Philadelphia Chapter NRHS latest “Cinders” October 2023 issue has mention
about the CRRC multilevels in Frank Tatnall’s “Philadelphia Express” (Page 4-left)

“SEPTA’s ill-advised order for 45 double-decker coaches placed in 2017 with Chinese car
builder CRRC still seems nowhere near delivery”.

Noted is that this order is under US DOT investigation after the MBTA’s problems with
CRRC (Orange and Red Line car fleet replacement covered in the MBTA Forum)

SEPTA’s FY 2024 Budget makes only remarks about the new car features and that the
delivery of the multilevels will begin sometime in 2024 (???)

See www.philadelphianrhs.org to read the October 2023 issue of “Cinders” -
There are many years of downloadable past issues which are always a good read…
MACTRAXX

From search results: The North Wales collision occurred during the AM Peak hours of
July 17, 1980 in which Train #472 (from Doylestown) rear-ended Train #406 (Lansdale).

Train #472 was being operated from the second car with a trainman on the head end.
Car 9020 - which was destroyed in the wreck - was thankfully empty that morning…
Cars 123-124 and 133 were also damaged…

See September 1980 “Cinders” (Page 6-“Commuter Notes”) and this NTSB page:
https://trid.trb.org/view/168943
MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:22 am Everyone: Philadelphia Chapter NRHS latest “Cinders” October 2023 issue has mention about the CRRC multilevels in Frank Tatnall’s “Philadelphia Express” (Page 4-left)

See www.philadelphianrhs.org to read the October 2023 issue of “Cinders” -

MT - I think there’s an error in that link. Swapping the loco and caboose to http://www.nrhsphiladelphia.org seems to work.

Jeff: We BOTH got the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS website address wrong - I was using an outside computer
for my post and did not have either Cinders issues saved or for referral and for that matter the correct link...
As we know there is 24 hours from post time to revise or correct any RR.Net postings...See:
http://nrhsphiladelphia.org
MACTRAXX

The first Silverliner IVs (the Reading single units) are turning 50 in November/December 2023. The first pair
(9018 and 9019) were premiered at a SEPTA press conference at 30 Street Station in February 1974. Until the
first PC cars were delivered, the Reading single units were used by PC for training and testing purposes, as
seen in this May 1974 press photo of 9024.

Delivery of all 232 cars was completed by 1976, interrupted by the 70 NJDOT Arrow IIs in 1974.