Fordham Service Questions (GCT - Fordham and New Haven Line)

Hudson Line trains make regular stops at Harlem-125th Street, as well.

Jim
(A Port Jervis native, now living in Queens....)

PC1100 wrote: I recall reading an old NY Times article from the early 1890s or so, that mentions that New Haven RR trains stopped on signal at 138th Street....about passengers, and even the train announcer at the station, being confused as to what the destinations were of [NH trains].

I've read same type articles too. Bronx politicians were very put out that they were denied the service. In fact for many years, the station at 138th Street (at the foot of the Grand Concourse) was called "The Bronx." That makes sense because much of the area (including many Harlem stations) above 138th St was part of Westchester County until NY City annexed the area around 1900.

One article I really got a laugh out of was from earlier, also the TIMES, I think. It was written in a funny not serious way. This was in the 1870s right after the NY Central took the NY & Harlem under longterm lease (about 400 years) and some suburban equipment began to be used on either line.

A Harlem train came in to 138th St and a matronly lady bound for Tuckahoe refused to get on the coach because it was lettered "New York Central & Hudson River." I think it was also painted red (or green) versus the normal NY & Harlem yellow. (Or vice versa.) They said the platform attendant or agent (or both) had quite a time convincing her this WAS the right train. I think finally the train conductor had to come down and assure her yes, this coach would indeed get her to her destination. The punch line was her telling the conductor, "But I don't wish to ride in a New York Central coach, Sir!"

Different era.

First of all, stop they are passengers, commuters, not customers. Also, people have to learn to read timetables. I was reading them when I was very little. I was on a NH train at Fordham, when the conductor told the passengers for the White Plains to take a "blue train." We are catering to the least of society and we holding up progress for the slow.

keithsy wrote:First of all, stop they are passengers, commuters, not customers. Also, people have to learn to read timetables. I was reading them when I was very little. I was on a NH train at Fordham, when the conductor told the passengers for the White Plains to take a "blue train." We are catering to the least of society and we holding up progress for the slow.

From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:

customer: noun 1 : one that purchases a commodity or service

Sounds to me like someone who buys a ticket and uses the transportation service to which that ticket entitles them. It's the 21st century. We call them customers now, whether or not you like it, and the usage is both correct and appropriate. Language evolves. Those that don't evolve with it get left behind.

People do indeed have to learn to read timetables, or at least learn to ask for the schedule from the proper authority. But that doesn't mean that they have to be as proficient in their knowledge of how the service works as you. If the conductor thinks he'll help people by saying "take the blue train", then great - he should say it. Tell me with a straight face you never needed help with something new to you, where others might have thought you were being stupid. There's nothing wrong with directing your efforts to the lowest common denominator when you're selling a service. That's how you continue to sell the service.

Judging by the preponderance of your other posts on this site, it seems you have an ax to grind with the "lowest common denominator". How about keeping your commentary to the narrow topic of trains, and not your distaste for those not as smart, well-off, or different in whatever other way you perceive them to be, as you? We like communicating about trains. We don't like reading divisive social commentary that doesn't add anything to the rail-related discussions.

Jim

keithsy wrote:First of all, stop they are passengers, commuters, not customers. Also, people have to learn to read timetables. I was reading them when I was very little. I was on a NH train at Fordham, when the conductor told the passengers for the White Plains to take a "blue train." We are catering to the least of society and we holding up progress for the slow.

The "slow" just so happen to be a large portion of commuters. Why don't we laugh at them and leave their money and them on the platform?

Can you understand everything completely? Are you perfect? If not, stop blabbing about how we should abandon everyone less knowledgable than you.

Since Erie-Lackawana quites Miriam-Webster, the definition of a passenger is "a traveler in a public or private conveyance". Isn't that someone who purchases passage and then uses a train? Refering to passengers as customers was a PR gimick which Amtrak came up with in the late 1970's early 1980's which then caught on with the regional rail lines. Airlines, bus lines and cruise ships still refer to their passengers as such, passengers. It's only used by the railroads. They were passengers and that's what they are, people who purchase passage. Customers are people who purchase a service (I would think refering to something like a barber, beauty salon, translation service, etc) or commodity. People were passengers for 150 years before they became customers. Passengers are what they are, passengers.

Is this minor vocabulary error really worth fighting about?

Regardless of the history of the term in rail service MNR now calls them customers.

I imagine the 138th St. station at the foot of the Concourse may have been there to effect transfers from the NH Harlem River Line and the NYW&B ? Wasn't the terminal thereabouts?

Sarge wrote:I imagine the 138th St. station at the foot of the Concourse may have been there to effect transfers from the NH Harlem River Line and the NYW&B ? Wasn't the terminal thereabouts?

The New Haven did not use the station at 138th Street. The Westchester
terminal in the Bronx was at Harlem River and connected to the Third
Avenue EL at 133rd Street. There was also a connection to the subway
at 180th Street.
A transfer between the New Haven and the Westchester was available at
Columbus Avenue Station.
Noel Weaver

I'm having a hard time understanding the discharge only/receive only issue. I a passenger has correct fare from GCT to Fordham, why shouldn't he be allowed to get off at Fordham if the train is scheduled to stop there regardless? Is there anything in the tarriffs prohibiting this? Is there an issue where not all NH Line cars make the platform?

If I have a zone 9 ticket on the LIRR, the ticket may say Huntington, but I can use it to get to Babylon, and no conductor is going to say anything about it.

cpontani wrote:I'm having a hard time understanding the discharge only/receive only issue. I a passenger has correct fare from GCT to Fordham, why shouldn't he be allowed to get off at Fordham if the train is scheduled to stop there regardless?

The number of cars has nothing to do with it, if they have a GCT to Fordham ticket then there is absolutely no problem. The only thing is that GCT to Fordham tickets are only valid on the Harlem and Hudson lines, not the New Haven.

And regardless of whether you have a valid ticket to a station, if the train you are on is scheduled to stop somewhere to receive only, you are not permitted to get off the train there. The reasoning is that trains are scheduled for the number of cars needed to carry passengers between the stations that train is intended to serve. If people start using it for journeys not intended, an overcrowding issue may arise, forcing the railroad to divert cars from trains that may also need those cars, or forcing customers to stand when they wouldn't otherwise need to do so.

For example: there is a 6:30PM train from GCT to Southeast, making an R stop at White Plains at 7:01. There is also a 6:33 train from GCT to Mount Kisco, making a normal stop at White Plains at 6:36. Same travel time, but many people may try to ride the 6:30, in order to save themselves 3 minutes. The problem is that the 6:30 is equipped for the ridership between GCT and the Chap - Southeast zone, excluding White Plains. If a significant number of the White Plains riders intended for the 6:33 get on that train, you'll have an overcrowding condition. The fix is the Receive-only designation. If you get on the 6:30 with a White Plains ticket, you'll be charged the difference in fare for a ticket to Mount Kisco, the first stop at which you are permitted to detrain. That's one way we make sure we have a seat for as many of our customers as possible.

Why does the 6:30 even stop at White Plains? For those who board in White Plains destined for stops north of Mount Kisco.

Hope that explains things.

Jim

IS it possible to ride from Grand Central to only 125th St or Fordham stations or catch a GCT bound triain from 125th St? The timetable suggests no but the ticket combination is purchaseable

Local City passengers within Manhattan or Bronx are not carried on New Haven division trains. However they are carried on Hudson and Harlem trains that are not marked with a "R" (outbound receive only) or "D" (inbound discharge only) at 125 Street or Fordham in the timetables.