Extra Tracks at North Station?

They could build an elevated. That would save a lot of money. Call it Atlantic Avenue Elevated NSRL

l008com wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:56 pm My favorite plan for a NSRL was a 2 or 4 track surface level RoW down the old 93 corridor. Impossible now but was such a no-brainer, it should have been included in the original design of the big dig for sure. And it would have been even nicer once electrification finally happens.

A major reason that they went underground was to open up the waterfront and North End to development. That’s been a massive success. Property values have rose, which means the state and city are collecting more revenue. Derelict buildings have been rehabbed. New businesses have opened near and on the Greenway. Running four tracks down the middle of the Greenway, which would feature plenty of grade crossings, would’ve done the opposite.

Electrification ain't happening anytime soon, and NSRL not happening isn't because of "folks stuck in the past", but because of money and how the state has none of it to give to projects that aren't even really necessary to Boston's core transportation system.

The MBTA's property line cuts into Spaulding's parking lot on the approach to tracks 11 and 12. The tracks can be connected without the building coming down.

l008com wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:56 pm My favorite plan for a NSRL was a 2 or 4 track surface level RoW down the old 93 corridor. Impossible now but was such a no-brainer, it should have been included in the original design of the big dig for sure. And it would have been even nicer once electrification finally happens.

I realize that for rail fans, the idea of watching a whole mess of trains moving back and forth along Atlantic Ave. would be pretty exciting, but from a practical point of view, that is such a laughably bad idea that I can't believe it was even proposed as an option.

The BON/BOS expansion projects seem to be the MBTA admitting two things: they intend to implement some form of "Regional Rail" but have no intention of building NSRL.

I still think electrification can, should, and will happen, but not quickly. Here's hoping the new drawbridges come with catenary poles preinstalled (or at least some place to put them!).

I mentioned this in a different thread long ago, but given how diesel electric locos work, it seems like it would be fairly easy, fairly cheap, to retrofit them with catenary so they could operate with the diesel running or without. Then they could start running some trains over electric right away, and electrify other lines over time. But what do I know, I still think a surface level NSRL is a great idea :D

The backups at the regularly used grade crossings, namely Congress, Pearl and Hanover streets, would make today’s downtown traffic seem quaint. In that case you might as well have left the highway up.

The BON/BOS expansion projects seem to be the MBTA admitting two things: they intend to implement some form of "Regional Rail" but have no intention of building NSRL.

The "Regional Rail" you're thinking of has already begun, it is just Commuter Rail but with better schedules that run trains more consistently throughout the day. BOS expansion is happening mainly because of SCR and East-West adding traffic volume to a station which is at its full capacity, and BON expansion is only happening because of the drawbridge reconstruction, and it only adds two tracks to North Station anyway, barely an expansion project compared to what they have in store for BOS. Electrification may happen, but its so far into the future that any Commuter Rail related project being done now likely has little to do with it.

I mentioned this in a different thread long ago, but given how diesel electric locos work, it seems like it would be fairly easy, fairly cheap, to retrofit them with catenary so they could operate with the diesel running or without.

The problem there is the cost of putting up said catenary to run them in the first place, which is so expensive that by that point, you might as well expand your budget and buy brand new Electric Locomotives instead of extensively rebuilding Diesel-Electrics and only likely have them run like crap.

I still think a surface level NSRL is a great idea :D

If Urbanists have such a massive problem with Highways cutting through cities (which is a valid concern), surely they would have a similar gripe if Railroads did the same thing.

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:29 pm The problem there is the cost of putting up said catenary to run them in the first place, which is so expensive that by that point, you might as well expand your budget and buy brand new Electric Locomotives instead of extensively rebuilding Diesel-Electrics and only likely have them run like crap.

If they did some retrofits, they could start running electric MBTA trains on some lines right now thanks to the amtrak overhead that's already in place. I'm not sure how many southern lines have overhead wires, being a north-sider, honestly the mbta map of the south side lines still confuses me and I don't even know what's what.

But still even if they retrofitted a couple of locos to be hybrid and ran those as electrics on even just one line.... one is better than nothing. My thinking is, doing a little bit at a time and keep working at it and eventually you can get everything done. I know this generally isn't how government thinking works.

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:29 pm If Urbanists have such a massive problem with Highways cutting through cities (which is a valid concern), surely they would have a similar gripe if Railroads did the same thing.

Maybe it is the railfan in me but I feel like a ground level rail link would be significantly less offensive than a fixed elevated highway. The trains would be much quieter (although not quieter since MBTA puts square wheels on all their trains) than the high, the highway is always there and always loud, 24 hours a day. Trains come and go. Probably no more than 30 or 40 mph. It would be significantly less abrasive to city life. There would still have been room for a lot of parkland too. If you had two tracks connecting the two, and strip parks on either side. I dunno, seems like a great solution to me but they didn't put me in charge of it so *shrug*

If converting a diesel-electric into a dual-mode was as easy as installing a pantograph and a transformer, I'm sure someone would have done it by now. The fact that every dual-mode locomotive was built as such says a lot about the practicality of adding that equipment to an existing locomotive.

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A ground-level NSRL would be even worse than the old elevated highway at dividing the North End and the waterfront from the rest of Boston. By its nature, you'd have a fenced-off right of way with a limited number of crossings, which would be frequently blocked by passing trains.

As someone who works on locomotives daily, granted Amtrak stuff, there is no chance in hell you'd be able to retrofit dual mode equipment (or should I say stuffed) into any existing Diesels the MBTA operates. There simply is not enough room in the carbodies.

It would make more sense for the MBTA to buy single-mode electric locomotives, assuming they had south-side repair facilities, assuming the electric locomotives were the same cost or cheaper than diesel (they are not - electric locomotives are more iirc), assuming they had a favorable cost agreement with Amtrak for electricity. It will take a long time for the MBTA to wire any lines other than the Providence Line and just maybe the Springfield/Worcester/Framingham Line, so there wont be many surplus diesels.

God, this thread is slipping even further into the 50's. There is such a thing as a BATTERY electric. See Stadler FLIRT. Put wires up in the longer simpler sections (cheaper - much cheaper). Charge batteries. Use batteries in unwired sections.