Extensions North

SnoozerZ49 wrote:As far as NH commuter rail goes. NH certainly has a very different mind set regarding public transportation. NH also has fewer recources available to it. My suggestion is that adults holding MA drivers licenses be given one fare and anyone holding an NH license be surcharged $2.00 on every ticket issued. NH commuters use our infrastructure without paying the same taxes that Mass commuters do. It's time that their free ride end.

There will be people who get around this. This will be concured by some people. The border towns have problems with people who register there cars in NH. Most of these people who hold dual liscense in both states. It wouldn't take much for the people from NH to do the same thing to get a MA license to get around a extra fare. I do like your idea though and i'm not trying to knock it, but there will be many people who will try to skate around it. I think the best thing would be to charge these people more at where they park. Since most of these people won't want to register there cars too and pay the higher prices in auto insurense(sp).

New Hampshire is paying... for the people who live in NH and work in MA, they still have MA taxes taken out of there pay checks. Besides you can't charge someone extra for living out of state. That would be like charging all MA residents more in NH for just being MA residents. I don't think NH is hurting MA in $$$. The only thing NH as to pay for itself is property taxes. There is no income tax in NH and god for bid you try and mention that, they'll go after you for saying it. People move to NH for reasons like that. So the state thought (just thought about it, and NIMBY's started barking at it) about putting in slot machines at the four tracks located through out NH. The same people fighting to keep the income tax from happening are fighting to keep gambling out. So where's the money? There is no money, that's why NH isn't funding for railroads. Okay the highway system, but that's all paid for through the tolls, not much is coming out of are pockets for that. That's why the truckers union sued the state. Half of the money for funding the highways in NH is coming from them. When the union found out, NH was going to try and use their money to fund something they don't even use, they filed suit and ultimately won.

SnoozerZ49 wrote:My suggestion is that adults holding MA drivers licenses be given one fare and anyone holding an NH license be surcharged $2.00 on every ticket issued.

Ever heard of the dormant commerce clause? Hood v. Du Mond? To make a long story short, what you propose is unconstitutional.

just to be a tad more clear on who pays for what, nh residents that work in mass not only pay non-resident tax, but that tax is the same rate as that that the full time residents pay. so, in all actuallity, a nh worker will pay the same rate as one from mass, but only benefits from it for the duration of their stay, whereas a resident benefits from it full time.
the bay state actually gets more mileage from out of state workers than instate workers.
nh workers also keep mass companies viable and able to pay corporate tax to the state.
the hiring process is on level ground, if a mass resident were more qualified for the job, they would have gotten it instead. nh residents fill a void.
i know that i pay about $4,000 or so in state tax to mass every year to use the roads to ballardvale.
that said, nh is one cheap a$$ state. no arguement there, but there is one benefit, nh doesn't have much of a welfare burden on it. nh expects you to carry your own weight in this world, and they offer so little from the public trough, that we have few welfare queens and gimme girls, little section 8 housing, and ghettos are about non existant.

Actually, NH is not paying for rail.

MBTA is funded through 3 methods, sales taxes, town assemsements, and fares. NH residents would pay some sales taxes, but for the most part are buying their products in tax-free NH. There are no NH towns paying the MBTA an assesement either. And fares only cover about 35% of the cost. So, in general NH residents are not paying much of the MBTA costs and I would not serve those communities without NH paying just like RI does.

well, i know i stand corrected.
i was under the impression that state taxes figured in to at least a portion of rail funding. my bad.
i'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as a free lunch, so-to-speak, and NH should pony up some greenstamps to get rail into the state.
at one point or another, i've had to deal with the mess that is the commute, on rts. 93/125/3/111/and 495, and rail just has to look attractive to more than a few people sitting in standstill traffic.
i'm lucky enough to work nights, so the mess i see daily is usually on the other side of the road.

A little more info..

Work in MA and live in NH means a few more things.

NH workers pay more income tax. The reason is that many things that are deductible for MA residents is NOT deductible for out of staters (like rent on an apartment).

In addition, we have no say in how this money is spent as we do not get to vote for state reps. (this holds true for all interstate commuters though) You'd think the hacks in MA would *like* getting money that they don't have to answer to anyone for

I live in NH and work in MA so I'm very familiar with this.

In addition, MA has a "back door tax" on out-of-state income. Since my wife works in NH, MA reduces the 'personal exemption' amounts based on her wages in NH.

Meyblc wrote:As each of you are well aware, the Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce has made the idea of getting commuter rail to our city one of our top three strategic goals during 2005 and 2006. We have been working very closely with our economic development partners in Nashua, the SNHPC, and our Mayor's Office to see that this goal becomes a reality.

Today, I am happy to say that we are taking a very important step toward making this goal become a reality in the future. The Chamber will be joining with several other partners to actually bring a commuter train into the City of Manchester this Monday!

Guilford Lines has agreed to bring a commuter train from Lowell, MA, up through Nashua into Manchester this Monday in order to show that it is indeed feasible. Bringing the train into our city will bring much needed public attention to the issue of commuter rail, and will serve as a wake-up call to our region's political leaders that there are strong forces coming together to make commuter rail a reality.

Each of you are invited to join us this Monday morning, at 11:45am, to welcome the train as it rolls into downtown Manchester. All of the media, and a large number of our political leaders will be present to witness this, and you will surely not want to miss it! Please join us on Monday, October 24, at 11:45am, behind WMUR Studios at the intersection of Depot and Bedford Streets. Parking should be available in the parking lot of BeeBee Shoes. The event should last no more than a half hour, so you can get back to your offices and other business.

Chris Williams

Vice President
Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce

Is this a step in the right direction or does it still not mean anything? I knew Nashua was a go but Manchester this early in the stage of passangers trains coming back to NH... this one took me by surprise. Does anyone know what engine number it will be? I have Monday off from work, I might have to go and see this one and take some pictures.

You can few the post from New England Railfan here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 151b72dfe3

Well, it's a start. It will probably happen some day; who
knows when. What they have to do now is go pry some
$$$$ out of the "live (for) free and die (on the highways)" state legislature. Good luck doing that!

I have a feeling most if not all of the funding is going to come from Nashua and Manchester. Maybe a little help from the communities that the train will travel through but that's about it. What are the chances of MA funding the section between the current station and the MA state line? Just maybe with whatever dollars are left NH will take care of, (JUST MAYBE!!!!! ).

The border towns have problems with people who register there cars in NH.

I grew up in Laconia, NH, which is a "city" of 15,000. When I moved to Worcester to go to college, my car insurance went down by about $75 a year. I don't know if insuring a car in NH is that much cheaper (if at all) than insuring it in Massachusetts.

The bottom line is that New Hampsire residents that work in Massachusetts do in fact pay their share. As another poster mentioned, these people pay MA income tax do not gain full benefit of the infrastructure and state programs those taxes fund. It's probably better for Massachusetts as a state to get those NH residents off the road and onto trains anyway. That would mean less air pollution here and more room on the highways for us!

FatNoah wrote: The bottom line is that New Hampsire residents that work in Massachusetts do in fact pay their share. As another poster mentioned, these people pay MA income tax do not gain full benefit of the infrastructure and state programs those taxes fund. It's probably better for Massachusetts as a state to get those NH residents off the road and onto trains anyway. That would mean less air pollution here and more room on the highways for us!

Well your right about that, as you get some NH drivers w/o any insurance, that get into an accident, and the MA residents end up fronting the bill, and insurance rates go up etc (tho there already rediculous!)

Yeah, if everyone got on trains etc, it would be alot better for everyone!

That is the whole point. Register your car in NH and you don't need to get insurance. In MA all cars have to be insured. But back to trains...

And I know i'm reviving an old thread...

We all know that the truckers sued the state when they tried to put some highway money into rail. Well I just heard on the news that some environmental groups are now suing the state regarding the highway widening. Maybe we should just stop having kids

I've always thought the Manchester/Lawrence line is the best one to bring back, as i think it passes through the most populated areas that see commuters. Though I agree that a single line exension into Salem would be an excellent start, a Boston - Woburn - Lawrence - Salem - Windham - Derry- Manchester train would be hugely successfull. Maybe erase the windham stop but they might have a parking advantage. Lots of people say the ROW is a mess and the tracks are ripped up. But they'd be ripping up the tracks anyway to build new ones? I don't think its nearly as bad as people say. There are also NO buildings on it. There are a couple of spots where the grade has been lowered so roads and driveways aren't so steap, so they woudl have to raise the grade back up. But thats hardly a significant roadblock in reviving rail service. The runway issue might be a problem, but I've never been up there and google maps are too low res to suggest anything. But seeing as how the problem is within manchester city limits (assuming it is, it could be in Auburn?) the city seems very willing to get trains, i'm sure it would be easy to get a reroute approved or whatever. What I think is needed most is for people to get together and try to rally support as a group. There are advocacy organizations for everything these days, some locals need to start up a manchseter/lowell, manchester/lawrence, and ... whatever the other ones were... advocacy group. I bet most people never even think about trains. Put trains in their heads and day after day when they are sitting in traffic, they may start to think "hey maybe trains would be good"

l008com you are correct about the ROW. And the state of NH has done a study of the line back when they did the study for the widening of I93. They have surveyed the land done environmental impact test, etc on the line and even came up with 2 possible solutions for the Airport area. For the Airport they would either relocate the ROW to the east or keep the original course of the ROW and tunnel under the runway.
Major station that I can see for the branch would be Salem, Salem as two exits coming off I93. Londonderry's exit 5 is just south of the ROW by about 500 ft. The Manchester Airport this station would actually be closer than the station on the Lowell line and then you could have a station in Manchester almost across the street from the Verizon Wireless Arena this station as well would be uses for trains going to and coming from Nashua and Lowell. Other stations on the M&L branch would be Methuen, Windham and Derry these stops would most likely be rush hour stops only.
To your comment about organizations in trying to revitalize passenger service to NH we have them and in fact the leader for one of the organizations lives in Windham and he has been fighting for the M&L branch. This individual made local News papers for his efforts about 6 or 7 years ago.

Windham is still pretty sparse but derry is really starting to explode. They are buliding new everything in that town. And everyone is building houses on what used to be their huge property. Let me put it this way, by the time this line would actually go into service, I'm sure all of these would be full time stops.

About these studies. When were they done? And are they online anywhere? It seems like the biggest hurdle is not simply finding money, but like all rail road extension these days, getting the people to realize they want it. Once the people want it, the politicians will find the money. Kinda reminds you of what it was like the FIRST time they built these railroads....