DutchRailnut wrote:Where did you get that CDOT bought extra M-8's for PSAS ?? not true
even the cars bought for SLE are already required on New Haven/GCT due to ridership increase.
1) Well something's gotta cover that service IF it ever starts (and given the support for it at least in the Bronx anything's fair game after ESA opens).
2) Then what the heck's going to cover SLE after 2016? Aside from maybe a handful of diesel sets to cover New London, Westerly, et all should the high level platform issue not be resolved by then the rest of the fleet is going to NHHS. To not use the M-8s on either PSAS or SLE would be a waste of time and money spent on making them compatible with the different catenary systems; and given all the trouble Kawasaki and MNR/ConnDOT went through getting them to finally work after how many delays I don't think they'd like to see that all go to waste either.
Keep in mind there's still one final 68-car option yet to be picked up. Kawasaki will still be churning them out for the next 1 1/2 to 2 years at least so it wouldn't be a bad idea to nip it in the bud while production hasn't shut down.
NHAirLine wrote:lirr42 wrote:No, PSAS will require M8's for New Haven Line service and P32's and Shoreliners for Hudson Line service.
And no, we can't switch the New Haven PSAS to eletric hauled coaches, ConnDOT purchased extra M8's for this purpose already. We're not going to have loads of extra M8's lying around and that won't end well.
And no, we can't electrify the Empire Connection under any form. Too much money for too few riders.
They have not bought cars for something that might not happen at all... The M-8's are technically incapable of running the route. The third rail extension idea is idiotic when there's already commuter equipment that runs that route, and does it in style (albeit only a few times a year for eggball games). For the Empire Connection, that's an easy case for third rail, as they could switch from under-running to over-running on the fly and use EMU's, which are ideally suited for a third-rail based service. Diesels really only make sense if they could make a true dual-mode loco that would fire up for the Empire Connection, and then shut the engine down at Spyuten Duvil and run third rail to Croton Harmon, not the crippled and poorly designed P32's. Even then, EMU's make a lot more sense for that route.
Well not entirely true they can run on the Hell Gate Line, just not past the Queens side approach to the Hell Gate bridge (where the LIRR overrunning third rail would be extended to from Harold). But you're correct in that
at the moment they cannot go all the way to Penn. The real dealmakers or breakers in PSAS is LIRR going to GCT, community support in the Bronx, support from the MTA, approval from Amtrak, approval to extend the third rail, etc. I personally don't know what to make of MNR going to Penn as the existing service pattern(s) to/from GCT don't exactly need fixing or tweaking (let alone are near or at capacity due to track constraints), but that is ultimately the MTA's call.
They also seem hell bent on running M-8's on SLE, which will happen, but will screw them now at NLC and screw them later when they try to extend to Westerly and hit low-levels. They should have switched SLE to loco-hauled electric in 1999, but they were too stupid to do it... Now they have the golden chance to buy cheap toasters that would be like strapping a rocket to the back of a little 4-car train, but no, they are going to blow the big bucks on new M-8's that are way over-designed for a route that uses only overhead wire. The M-8's are amazing cars, and fantastic at running the busiest passenger rail line in North America, but they are horrifically expensive and over-designed for any route that's not NHV-GCT or a part of it where the Pelham Pantograph Plunge is required at speed.
It's a little more complicated than that. Using any electric power would have required ConnDOT to pay Amtrak fees for using the catenary system for a service that, keep in mind, did not have nearly as big a schedule as it does now. In 2000 there were at most 8(?) round trips on weekdays including the "Reverse Express" runs with no weekend service other than the OpSail trains. Today SLE has 15 round trips and would likely be greater than that right now if not for the lack of double platforms at most stations.
As F-Line noted in the GP40-2H thread there are some AEM-7s in good enough condition for use after Amtrak retires them. But then you'd still have the problem of coaches and seeing as there are only 33 Mafersas (did ConnDOT buy the remaining 5 cars from VRE too or did VRE keep them?) for the 62 mile NHHS line that also plans on running 14-17 round trips with presumably 3-5 cars per train there's very little, if any coaching stock, that can be spared elsewhere even for SLE; that is unless ConnDOT buys up some of the retired MBTA Bombardier coaches, etc. I'm sure some equipment will be set aside for NLC and Westerly if worst comes to worst putting in even a 1/2 car length mini high for the M-8s will be too much of a challenge thanks to the curvature problem.
Another problem with AEM-7s is they're essentially foreign equipment in a sea of dual power EMUs and Geeps and GEs. Part of the reason for the M-8s being used on SLE is the ability for GCT-OSB/NLC/etc. through trains which obviously can't be done with a Toaster and even if NYP-NHV-OSB/NLC, etc. was an option that'd still require displacing an existing GCT train and unless it was replacing a super express run from NHV I doubt such a move could be justified. Plus having the AEM-7s brought into the mix adds another unique class of locomotive to ConnDOT's roster making maintenance, etc. less streamlined. And even if that weren't a problem and they were to contract the maintenance of those motors out to Amtrak is the NHV "facility" adequate enough to tend to one should it fall ill, so to speak?
And forget about the HHP-8s. They go back to Bombardier the moment they've rolled their last miles. Though I would like to see one painted in a McGuiness scheme myself
Don't get me wrong though your argument about using the ol' Toasters isn't exactly without merit, it's just not likely feasible from ConnDOT's end. I myself once made drawings of "what if" MNR/ConnDOT AEM-7 paint schemes. Granted I was 8 or 9, but still