DreamStar Lines - New Private Overnight Passenger Service LA - SF

So this Orange County lawyer is talking to Metrolink and UP about starting a night train LA-SF.

Read about it in the SF Gate

He will need 10-6s, 11DBRs, if any UP 5 DBR, 5 Compartment, two drawing room cars are available, a couple of those, and two diners per consist … reconfigured for business travellers.
(My opinion)

I wish him well.

I wish them luck. Personally I think it's complete nonsense that Amtrak service on this route is during the day, as it basically cuts off everyone except for people who can't fly for whatever reason. Losing an entire day to travel between SF and LA is nonsense.

A night train, however, is perfect. Good call on skipping the dining car too (not sure where the two diners are coming from — article explicitly calls out that no diner service will be provided, which makes sense on an overnight train).

I would welcome more information about their plans for station facilities at both ends. Presumably some arrangement could be made at LA for servicing the train at Amtrak's nearby facility, but I'm not sure what would be possible on Caltrain in The City. The nearest place I can think of in the Bay Area is Desert Yard in Oakland (isn't that where Amtrak does the CZ?), which would be awkward to say the least, requiring a deadhead move via CP COAST.

One big change from "back in the day" is the volume of commuter traffic around the desired morning arrival at each end (called "commute" traffic in SF; I don't know that LA had a name for it in Lark days, since commuter traffic on the Coast Line was nonexistent). Today, track and station capacity is tight at both ends of the route, although the evening departure should present no problem.

I certainly hope these issues can be resolved without a dog-in-the-manger attitude on Amtrak's part (we don't want to run the service and we don't want anybody else to run it). It would be great if they can pull this off.

The article seems to talk about Brightline more, with few details about this proposal: https://abc7.com/amp/dreamstar-lines-fi ... /13151478/

SOCAL COMPANY PLANS TO LAUNCH FIRST-CLASS PASSENGER TRAIN SERVICE BETWEEN LA AND SAN FRANCISCO

Reports say it would use the same route as Amtrak's Coast Starlight.

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A company from Newport Beach is reportedly planning to launch a nightly first-class passenger train service between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

According to the SFGate, Dreamstar Lines Inc. said it's working on "lining up the railcars, financing, staffing and agreements needed to offer the first night train on the route in decades."

SFGate said the the train would leave at 10 p.m. and arrive by 8:30 a.m. and would use the same route as Amtrak's Coast Starlight.

Fares would be anywhere from $300 to $1,000.
...

Here's something more substantial: https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... star-lines

Sort of a "West Coast Night Owl" except on the Coast Starlight route. Which makes me wonder who owns that ROW?

The last overnight train between L.A. and S.F. ran in 1968. A startup wants to bring it back

The idea for the privately run night train would function as an almost railway red-eye, but with comfortable accommodations so people could get a full night’s sleep before waking up at their destination, said Dreamstar CEO Jake Vollebregt. If the small company’s plan moves forward, he said the new trains could be running by the summer of 2024.
...

Route ownership SF to LA:
SF to CP LICK (just south of Tamien) -- Peninsula Joint Powers Board (Caltrain), TT direction southward
CP LICK to CP LAS POSAS (Moorpark) -- UP, TT dir. southward
CP LAS POSAS to LA -- Southern California Regional Rail Authority (Metrolink)-- TT dir. eastward

Caltrain services operate over UP CP LICK - Gilroy
Metrolink services operate over UP CP LAS POSAS - Montalvo

Source: California Railroad Timetable 1, September 28, 2021,www.kingstreetpress.org

I should add that much of the route between Moorpark and Burbank Airport is single track with not a lot of sidings or 2-main-track stretches and a fairly heavy am rush hour traffic volume, considering the constraints.

I should also add that there's another thread on this subject (under California?).

Thanks for that info; so much of the ROW seems to be in the public domain.

I found a topic on the feasibility of a night train, but I don't think it was about DreamStar.

There are LA to SF night buses that are pretty cool. The big downside to the night bus if you have to get off when it arrives. How this service could succeed would be if it allowed passengers to remain on the train until X time.

For example, if the train arrives at 6:00 am, passengers can remain on the train until 8:00 am.

SFGate mentions an arrival time of 8.30 am, and most passengers would be ready to get off by then; even a San Jose arrival a little after 7.30 would be acceptable to most people. Southbound, similar arrival times at Van Nuys and Glendale would also work. Ironically, an overnight bus could probably make it in by 6 am, but there would be no lingering on board if only because the driver would have to remain with the bus until the last passenger left.

gprimr1 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:27 am For example, if the train arrives at 6:00 am, passengers can remain on the train until 8:00 am.

Reminds of the Executive Sleeper at NYP in late 80s/early 90s.

Back on the east coast, the overnight Regional/Owl hasn't had sleepers for years, despite the new Viewliners
giving hope for such.

I’m going to say this. How many night trains before Amtrak lacked some form of drink and food? People coming from a workday want a nightcap and some form of food.

The Lark, the Coaster, the West Coast and the Owl all had SOMETHING to sell booze.

I'm sure I saw mention in an earlier post of having a bar car for evening refreshments -- virtually a requirement from the passenger's viewpoint, as well as a significant revenue source. And I'm sure many passengers would welcome coffee in the morning. In fact, the presence of a bar car for a 10 pm departure could be the clincher in selling people on taking the train.

Dunno, the St. Petersburg–Moscow route had had tons of overnight trains without a cafe car for decades. You can have a snack/breakfast in your room before heading out if you really need it.

Coffee? You really going to need a whole dining/bar car for that, with all the expenses that come with it? Put a simple espresso/latte machine at the end of the sleeper car and it will probably be better quality than anything coming out of the fanciest cafe car on the entire Amtrak network.

One attendant should be sufficient for a bar car (possibly with the help of sleeping-car attendants for prep work), and the evening bar business should cover the cost of morning coffee and then some. Even a coffeemaker needs attention to keep it working, and in any case any reference to Amtrak standards is setting the bar pretty low -- the anticipated clientele for this service will want something better than an unattended machine.

In pre-Amtrak days the New Haven was the only railroad to show a positive cost-benefit ratio on its dining-car service, and it wasn't because of the food. (It could be that Fairfield County alone was what kept it in the black.)

I don't think they need a full food service car. The night buses are making money without these services, and without showers.

For Food, they could either just provide vouchers worth a specific amount, good at any place in the terminal, or partner with a restaurant in the terminal. For example, all passengers get a coupon for either 4 free donuts and a coffee or 1 breakfast sandwich and a coffee from Dunkin. Similar concept for dinner, say, one free medium-value meal from McD.

On board, they could add vending machines to sell sodas, juices, and coffee/tea packets. They could also sell snacks in a vending machine. There is a pizza place near me that has alcohol vending machines. You get an RFID card, and use it to activate the machine, and it dispenses beer, wine, and premixed cocktails and charges per ounce. This solution could easily work. A couple of hot water dispensers could also be added on the train for making tea and coffee.

Not to mention, not everyone drinks before bed or even drinks at all.