Dover & Delaware River RR

I do freight rates for work now and again and, before surcharge, rail carriers seem to get around 2.50 per mile on the longer hauls.

Hmm… Well DDRR is a shortline, so for them is Phillipsburg to Dover considered a longer haul?

Also, this train was an extra service.

Only other charge I know of for this railroad is the fee to go down NJT, which I believe is 50 cents per mile, per loaded freight car…

Shorter hauls generally equal higher cost per mile. Never got a rate for a haul from Phillipsburg except back in NS days for cement to Kenvil area. The price was ridiculous and there was a weight limitation so we never shipped by rail.

SemperFidelis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:01 pm Shorter hauls generally equal higher cost per mile. Never got a rate for a haul from Phillipsburg except back in NS days for cement to Kenvil area. The price was ridiculous and there was a weight limitation so we never shipped by rail.

I do not know what DDRR charges, but I have a question for you.

Chesapeake and Delaware, parent company of the DDRR, advertise themselves as a “handling line partner” for Norfolk Southern. I’ve asked around as to what that means, and the only answer I was given is that being one of these so called “partners” means that when you ship with them, you pay NS carload rates but the shortline is who actually serves you. You also pay the shortlines tariffs.

Is this actually what goes on?

normally the shortline rate is built right into the rate quote you get. If you are used to shipping by truck you will HATE waiting sometimes weeks for a rate quote from a Class 1. The shortlines are generally excellent folk though.

I know two sand and stone shippers and a cement receiver who can't use the line because of the weight restriction of 263k in places. Just dropped the rr a line asking if there was any hope of getting that lifted.

SemperFidelis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:24 pm normally the shortline rate is built right into the rate quote you get. If you are used to shipping by truck you will HATE waiting sometimes weeks for a rate quote from a Class 1. The shortlines are generally excellent folk though.

I know two sand and stone shippers and a cement receiver who can't use the line because of the weight restriction of 263k in places. Just dropped the rr a line asking if there was any hope of getting that lifted.

With the way NJT is I wouldn’t put much hope in getting it lifted sadly. Woodhaven on the Southern Secondary complains about the weight issue too. Capped at 263k because of NJT. If it was 286 they’d be able to put around 23,000 pounds more lumber in their train cars.

For a while DDRR wanted an extra $1000 for cars over 263k and exceeding Plate C clearance. I’ve been told they no longer charge that but the tariff for it is still on their website…

Yeah, a trucking company will always beat rail for shorter hauls, especially when you can't max out the railcars. The last rate I got, again back in NS days, was about $5/ton more expensive than trucking.

Railroads have gotten smarter about sharing revenues with short line partners. My understanding is that the short line gets a meaningful percentage of the revenue from the railcar delivered. I think it is 25% to 33% but I'm not sure. Even if the short line is only 5 miles long, the division makes sense because the short line handles the tedious business of shunting around and spotting railcars at local customers. They also help with marketing, provide a high level of service, and at a lower cost than the Class Is can offer. That's why the Southern Secondary and Freehold line will do better with D&D over Conrail operations.

Sorry to hear that some stone/sand shippers won't ship because of the 263k limit. I suppose they know 286k cars' volumes can be readily modified to hold only 263k worth of freight? Or better yet, only fill 100 tons of load instead of 111 tons?

I'm not sure of the exact revenue split, but I think it might be a predetermined flat dollar amount, rather than a percentage. I'm just not familiar enough with shortline balance sheets to be able to state anything definitively. I'll ask someone when I have an appointment with them and let you know if it's flat or percentage based.

Everyone I have worked with just aren't really all that concerned with why your quote is higher, they just care that it is. When I tried to ship Portland and sand, the rate was astronomically high, even before we factored in the weight limitation, so we never made the moves by rail.

I've never really delved into just how the railroads put together their rates, I just know that the wait time is frustratingly long when I can get basically an instant quote from any trucking company.

So since DDRR moves rail trains for NJT once in a great while, any chances they’ll be moving whatever materials are being shipped to the Lackawanna Cutoff? More rail trains? Ballast? Etc?

DDRR delivers the rail trains to NJT. NJT upon acceptance takes the rail train wherever they need it. Since that Cutoff project is an NJT project, they'll be moving the materials themselves.

Good afternoon. Changing the subject a bit back to the D&DR RP-1 schedule, Will they be coming down to the Totowa Industrial Spur to service Royal tomorrow (Wednesday) or Thursday? I remember they did have a once a week on Wednesdays schedule sometime ago so I was just curious. Thanks.

RP-1 runs Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from Rockport to Phillipsburg and back for the NS exchange, working customers along the way.

RP-2 does literally everything else now. The run down NJT to Lake Junction, the branch lines out of Lake Junction, the Rockaway Branch, and Totowa. This train runs Tuesday and Thursday but it seems whatever they is at complete random. No clue when they do Totowa anymore…

Ummm…. What’s up the STB filing saying NJT is acquiring the Washington Secondary from NS??????

For some reason it wouldn’t let me post the link so I’ll copy and paste what it says.

New Jersey Transit Corporation—Acquisition Exemption—Norfolk Southern Railway Company in the Counties of Morris and Warren, N.J.
The New Jersey Transit Corporation (NJ Transit), a noncarrier, has filed a verified notice of exemption under 49 C.F.R. § 1150.31 to acquire from Norfolk Southern Railway Company (NSR) an approximately 9.15-mile portion of the property commonly known as the Washington Secondary Track in Morris and Warren Counties, N.J., from milepost 48.1 to milepost 57.25 (the Line). NJ Transit states that, under the proposed transaction, it would acquire ownership of the Line and NSR would retain an exclusive freight easement preserving NSR’s ability to operate freight service on the entire Washington Secondary Track.1
NJ Transit states that usage of the Line will continue to be governed by the trackage rights agreement (the 1984 Agreement) between NJ Transit and NSR’s predecessor, the Consolidated Rail Corporation.2 According to NJ Transit, it is acquiring the property to support its commuter rail operations.
1 NJ Transit also filed a motion to dismiss the notice of exemption on the grounds that the transaction does not require authorization from the Board. The motion to dismiss will be addressed in a subsequent Board decision.
2 NJ Transit includes with its verified notice excerpts from the 1984 Agreement as well as documents implementing the current transaction.

Docket No. FD 36676 NJ Transit certifies that the proposed transaction does not involve a provision or
agreement that would limit future interchange with a third-party connecting carrier. NJ Transit also certifies that, because it will not conduct any rail carrier operations on the Line, its projected annual revenues will not exceed $5 million and will not result in the creation of a Class I or Class II carrier.
NJ Transit states that it will consummate the proposed transaction following completion of the proceedings at the Board related to this notice and the related motion to dismiss. The earliest this transaction may be consummated is June 29, 2023, the effective date of the exemption (30 days after the verified notice of exemption was filed).
If the verified notice contains false or misleading information, the exemption is void ab initio. Petitions to revoke the exemption under 49 U.S.C. § 10502(d) may be filed at any time. The filing of a petition to revoke will not automatically stay the effectiveness of the exemption. Petitions for stay must be filed no later than June 22, 2023 (at least seven days before the exemption becomes effective).
All pleadings, referring to Docket No. FD 36676, must be filed with the Surface Transportation Board either via e-filing on the Board’s website or in writing addressed to 395 E Street, S.W., Washington, DC 20423-0001. In addition, a copy of each pleading must be served on NJ Transit’s representative, Charles A. Spitulnik, Kaplan Kirsch & Rockwell LLP, 450 7th Avenue, Suite 1401, New York, NY 10123.
According to NJ Transit, this action is categorically excluded from environmental reporting requirements under 49 C.F.R. § 1105.6(c) and from historic preservation reporting requirements under 49 C.F.R. § 1105.8(b).
2

Board decisions and notices are available at www.stb.gov.
Decided: June 9, 2023.
By the Board, Mai T. Dinh, Director, Office of Proceedings.

Very, very interesting…