Dim lights when trains passing one another

Hi;
New to this forum.
Please excuse the many questions i have regarding railroad operations, but I am very curious.
I have 2, why do engineers dim their loco lights when approaching and passing one another?
And does anybody have any ideas to where the radio from the Erie CSX yard has gone? I no longer hear anything locally.

waterlevelroute wrote:why do engineers dim their loco lights when approaching and passing one another?

I have never truly witnessed it but I bet it is the same reason why you don't keep your brights on your car on when you pass another car. Don't blind the driver for that time. There may be something sticking out on the passing train that would be missed with that temporary light in your eyes, or someone running out in front trying to beat the trains.

Um yes. I can tell you from first hand knowledge, those engine lights are BRIGHT when they're on high. More than likely, they're brighter than your car's high beams. So the purpose is to be courteous and not blind the other crew.

scooterz66 wrote:Um yes. I can tell you from first hand knowledge, those engine lights are BRIGHT when they're on high. More than likely, they're brighter than your car's high beams. So the purpose is to be courteous and not blind the other crew.

its more a curteous jestuer (gesture) to on coming traffic to dim the lights and they are bright.

scooterz66 wrote: I can tell you from first hand knowledge, those engine lights are BRIGHT when they're on high. More than likely, they're brighter than your car's high beams.

Brighter indeed! A modern car halogen headlight is rated at 55 watts. Locomotive sealbeam lamps are 300 watts apiece.

Further, locomotive headlight beams are more narrowly focused. This renders them even MORE intense when viewed head-on.
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On several occasions while driving on a parallel roadway (NY 70 near the Livingston/Allegany county line - CP "ROSS" on the NS) I have had an oncoming locomotive dim its headlights for me. The courtesy is very much appreciated since from head-on a locomotive's headlamp/ditch lamp combination on "bright" is literally blinding.

While driving on Baseline Road in Belleview, FL parallelling the CSX "S" Line, I once flicked my high beams at a CSX nighttime move, and had the engineer/conductor respond by dimming their "high beam", and giving me a short burst on the horn before the obligatory short-short-long-short for the crossing.

One reason lights are dimmed other than courtesy is, crews of both trains must inspect other train for trouble.
to much light you won't see sparks, not enough light you won't see smoke.

Interesting, I didn't know that locomotive headlights could be dimmed. It makes perfect sense, but for some reason I always assumed it was just "on" and "off" (aside from turning the ditch lights on or off).

Slightly related: When he was alive, my grandfather (former NHRR/NYC/PRR/PC exec) told stories of momentarily shutting off the locomotive headlights when deer were spotted on the tracks ahead. Apparently it worked OK for clearing critters off the tracks, but that must be quite the experience for the engineer, heading down the ROW completely blind!

Finch wrote:Interesting, I didn't know that locomotive headlights could be dimmed. It makes perfect sense, but for some reason I always assumed it was just "on" and "off" (aside from turning the ditch lights on or off).

Slightly related: When he was alive, my grandfather (former NHRR/NYC/PRR/PC exec) told stories of momentarily shutting off the locomotive headlights when deer were spotted on the tracks ahead. Apparently it worked OK for clearing critters off the tracks, but that must be quite the experience for the engineer, heading down the ROW completely blind!

Some engineers do turn the lights completeley off when comeing up face to face with anouther train on anouther set of tracks. This also leads to some engineers forgetting to turn the lights back on if they have been siting at a red signal for an hour or two.

It is ok by Canadian rules do dim the lights when approaching an oncoming movement but they still have to be on full power NO MATTER WHAT if you are coming up to a public crossing.

There are A LOT of engineers in my terminal who don't care about going over a crossing with their lights dimmed. They don't care about what the consequences are if they hit someone. The other crew doesn't need to be staring right into the lights.

You can't be doing things like that in the USA but for some reason guys here just don't care about rule compliance.

gp9rm4108 wrote:It is ok by Canadian rules do dim the lights when approaching an oncoming movement but they still have to be on full power NO MATTER WHAT if you are coming up to a public crossing.

That same rule applies here inthe US under GCOR, NORAC and other rules. ALL lights must be on bright when approaching stations and grade crossings. The only time i dim mine is if i am approaching another train. And when the other crew does as well, that lets me know that at least the engineer is awake and alert. Anytime i dim and the other crew does not, i immediatley call them on the radio to make sure they are awake. There have been a number of collisions where the other crew reported that the oncoming train did not dim their lights, indicating almost certainly that both crewmembers were asleep. Check some past NTSB reports.

gp9rm4108 wrote:There are A LOT of engineers in my terminal who don't care about going over a crossing with their lights dimmed. They don't care about what the consequences are if they hit someone. The other crew doesn't need to be staring right into the lights.

Well then you need not feel bad for them when they end up in court and the victims attorneys can throw up the fact that they violated a safety rule which may have in turn caused the accident at hand.

It seem as though alot of engineers seem to think that humans are unable to look away or squint at a bright light. These are the same bunch of crybabies who call you over the radio and say "What are you afraid of the dark?" when i wont dim coming up on crossings. Let them whine, at least if and when i end up in a courtroom facing criminal charges as well as the possibility of finanical ruin, at least ill know i followed the rules and they cant hang me for that.

Even worse, most engineers sadly dont just dim their lights, they turn them off. Alot of the Amtrak guys do this as well. And to further make matters worse, in order to keep the ditch lights from pulsing, the Amtrak crews dont put there bell on while approaching and passing our stopped head ends (another rule violation). So now, anytime you get off the power to do a walk around you have to be constantly on the lookout for high speed trains with no lights on or bell. Great.

Here is Norac rule:

22. Engine Lights

a. Headlight

The headlight facing the direction of movement on every train and engine must be displayed brightly by day and night.
The headlight must be dimmed:
1. While standing or passing through yards where other engines are working.
2. When approaching a station where a Form D is to be received.
3. When approaching junctions or terminals.
4. When standing or moving on a main track at meeting points.
5. When standing or when approaching another train operating in the opposite direction in multiple track territory.

EXCEPTION: When approaching or passing over public crossings at grade, the headlight must not be dimmed.

Engines in yard service must display the headlight to the front and rear, by day and by night. The headlight on the end coupled to cars may be extinguished.
If all headlight bulbs fail en route, the Engineer must take the following actions:
1. Illuminate all external engine lights that can be illuminated (except red strobe light).
2. Notify the Dispatcher as soon as practical.
3. Ring the bell continuously.
4. Sound the engine whistle or horn frequently.
5. Approach all public crossings at grade prepared to stop. Train may proceed over crossing not exceeding 20 MPH. Speed applies to head end only.
6. Reduce speed at other locations when required by the prevailing conditions, not exceeding 50 MPH at night.

EXCEPTION: These restrictions do not apply when the train has operable auxiliary lights.

b. Auxiliary Lights
The leading end of leading engines that operate over public crossings at grade at speeds greater than 20 MPH must be equipped with auxiliary lights. Auxiliary lights consist of two ditch lights (auxiliary lights on steady), two crossing lights (auxiliary lights alternately flashing), or one oscillating light (auxiliary light that moves in a circular or figure eight pattern). Auxiliary lights are considered operative when they illuminate after the engine horn and/or bell is sounded or the auxiliary light switch is activated.
Auxiliary lights must be operational before the engine leaves its initial terminal, and must be displayed when the engine is approaching and operating over public crossings at grade.
If one of a pair of auxiliary lights fails en route, the train may continue at Normal Speed, but the defective auxiliary light must be repaired no later than the next calendar day inspection.
If all auxiliary lights fail en route, the train must not exceed 20 MPH while the leading end of the train is operating over public crossings at grade, and the auxiliary light(s) must be repaired at the next forward repair point.

regarding "If all headlight bulbs fail en route, the Engineer must take the following actions:"

Does the Engineer do a bulb replacement when out on the road? Or is this reserved for a "qualified" tradesman.

thanks

If he has a spare locomotive headlight in his bag or on locomotive Im sure he will try to change it.
running in dark with no headlight is no fun.

toolmaker wrote:regarding "If all headlight bulbs fail en route, the Engineer must take the following actions:"

Does the Engineer do a bulb replacement when out on the road? Or is this reserved for a "qualified" tradesman.

thanks

Cant speak for MNRR or the Amtrak guys, but i rareley if even see spare headlight bulbs anywhere on a loco. In most cases, you lose one of the two main headlight bulbs which still gives you plenty of light. If you a ditch light, it's still manageable. If you lose both ditch lights but still have the main headlight? Then you can still run normal speed except over crossings. I would most likley deal with slowing down for grade crossings, it is a pretty rare occourence. I had it happen once, but that was from striking a tree. Never lost both ditch lights by them both burning out the same trip. If the possibility of repairs were hours away, i would ASK a dispatcher if they wanted me to make the repairs. But i would never do it without asking. If anything went wrong, i don't want to be responsible. And you need to be very careful from a union standpoint. If an Electrician found out that you made an electrical repair which in turn, screwed him out of a call, or worse yet, an overtime situation, you could be in some hot water. We had a conductor who changed out some brake shoes on a "hot" car since there was no car department guys around and he didnt want to wait for them. He got a pretty serious talking to from both unions.

I know the passenger guys dont have this option, but on most freight loco's, you always have two spare bulbs handy. The ditch lights off the rear of the unit! Once got on power for a local at an outlying point and needed to replace a bulb in order to get the loco into compliance.