CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

Noticing a lot of replies being deleted from multiple users on this thread.

Sounds like a conspiracy….

I’m thinking the rumor I heard was false… it was that GWI was out and they were going to submit a new app with a different operator.

My reply was deleted without notice as well. Weird...

newpylong wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:20 pm My reply was deleted without notice as well. Weird...

Even the private messages to the mods about this are being deleted. I think it's a major glitch on railroad.net

jamoldover wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:31 am Since the interchange with MNRY is via haulage rights over EMRY, and there's also an interchange with MNRY via CP at Northern Maine Jct, I suspect (unless the rate split is significantly more favorable via Mattawamkeag) that whatever MNRY traffic there is will go via CP since it's a shorter/more direct route overall (NMJ > Brownville Jct vs NMJ > Mattawamkeag > Brownville Jct).

CSX isn't spending millions of dollars on the sale, track rehab along the Reservoir in West Boylston and other areas just to hand off cars to a rival (Canadian Pacific) in order to reach all of the Irving traffic in Saint John. The line from Old Town to Mttawamkeag will be given a full rehab by CSX. That way they can compete against CP and CN.

As for the Hoosac Tunnel...that won't be a CSX problem. That's an NS problem that they will have to address with PAS and its successor.

Agreed, I don't see CP and CSX working together in any way shape or form up in Maine and in fact expect just the opposite, as they will both be fighting tooth and nail over much of the same Irving road traffic, with CSX having a big upper hand.

PBMcGinnis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:34 pm As for the Hoosac Tunnel...that won't be a CSX problem. That's an NS problem that they will have to address with PAS and its successor.

As 50% owner and managing entity of capital outlay the tunnel will be CSX's problem at least for the short term until they bail on their half of PAS.

PBMcGinnis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:34 pm CSX isn't spending millions of dollars on the sale, track rehab along the Reservoir in West Boylston and other areas just to hand off cars to a rival (Canadian Pacific) in order to reach all of the Irving traffic in Saint John. The line from Old Town to Mttawamkeag will be given a full rehab by CSX. That way they can compete against CP and CN.

I wasn't talking about westbound traffic from St. John. CSX isn't going to get any of the westbound traffic from from St. John that's destined to MNRY. That's all an Irving connection, and the Irving roads will keep it for themselves.

I was talking about EASTbound traffic that was originating in the US destined for northern Maine on the MNRY. The original question was related to a potential need to rebuild Mattawamkeag to provide easier interchange with MNRY. My point was that any eastbound traffic wasn't going to go to Mattawamkeag just to head back west again.

On one hand, CP is going to be competing with CSX on that MNR traffic, but on the other hand, if it's going to or from a CSX point, CP is totally out of the picture regardless, so I guess in that latter case they may still be willing to offer the haulage service, though unlikely. I also thought I heard that CP wanted to cancel the haulage right off the bat, but were willing or convinced to work with Pan Am until the line to Keag got up and running. Even though it's less mileage from Brownville Jct to Northern Maine Jct via the CP vs going East to Keag and back West to Bangor, since the latter route involves one less carrier, who happens to be a class 1 and a major competitor, it's reasonable to think that even that traffic is going to go the long way around due to price.

jamoldover wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:38 pmI wasn't talking about westbound traffic from St. John. CSX isn't going to get any of the westbound traffic from from St. John that's destined to MNRY. That's all an Irving connection, and the Irving roads will keep it for themselves.

I was talking about EASTbound traffic that was originating in the US destined for northern Maine on the MNRY. The original question was related to a potential need to rebuild Mattawamkeag to provide easier interchange with MNRY. My point was that any eastbound traffic wasn't going to go to Mattawamkeag just to head back west again.

There really isn’t any to speak of, unless CSXT comes up with something. The only real loads ever going East that far were the oil trains.

There's definitely an imbalance with much more loaded traffic heading West, but there still is some decent traffic moving in the other direction. On the MNR side, there is LPG, fertilizer, cooking oils and inbound clay/fillers for Twin Rivers at Madawaska , while on the NBSR side, there's all the pulping chemicals and some clay/fillers going to the 2 Irving Mills at St J and to Woodland Pulp. There's also the brewery in St J that gets grain, some ma & pa fertilizer accounts, a couple small chemical transload sites and there is loaded CB traffic (perhaps shingles) that both CP and CN bring into NB. There is also the previously mentioned CBR which continues to flow to the Irving refinery via CN and once the line to Keag gets cleared, there could also be some potential auto traffic.

None of that traverses the MEC, which is what I replied regarding (the Keag gateway). Looks like I misinterpreted Joshua's comment, and he was referring to loads currently going East around Pan Am (the items you list.)

Guessing that CSX will definitely be going hard after anything and everything in and out of Northern Maine and NB.

I can see CSX getting more mixed traffic than intermodal. Atleast with the current CP operations, 142 has been leaving mixed traffic at Brownville Junction depending on how much power 251 has. Someone else could probably explain the intermodal contracts to me a little better, but is CSX trying to get contracts of their own, or are they trying to rob traffic off CP?
Going a little off topic, I imagine if business starts picking up on EMR/NBSR that Irving will have to do some major upgrades. IIRC the rail east of Brownville Junction is mainly 100 LBS.

When all is said and done, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if CP loses half of its' current manifest traffic to CSX. In addition to the fact that so much of that business is simply going to end up being a CSX local move, the other problem that CP faces is that it doesn't have anywhere near the same captive, on-line base business in Maine that CSX does/will. So while CSX can price the Irving road traffic as "bonus" incremental business (i.e. aggressively), CP on the other hand needs to pay the bills with mainly competitive Irving road traffic and won't have the luxury of incremental pricing. No matter what CP does, they are inevitably going to suffer due to CSX now being in the picture - as will CN, though not to the same extent.