Railroad Forums 

  • CP regret selling their lines in Eastern Canada and Maine?

  • Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPKCR.com. Includes Kansas City Southern. There is also a KCS sub-forum for prior operations: kansas-city-southern-and-affiliates-f153.html
Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPKCR.com. Includes Kansas City Southern. There is also a KCS sub-forum for prior operations: kansas-city-southern-and-affiliates-f153.html

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

 #1598512  by CPF363
 
Does CP regret selling their lines east of Montreal consisting largely of the old Canadian Atlantic Railway? Could more have been done to make the CAR more profitable verses selling out? Did CP invest too much in the D&H, thinking that would constitute the eastern end of their transcontinental network verses Saint John, NB? Looking forward, will CP eventually look to work an arrangement to bring the remainder of the line east of Brownville Jct. back into the system?
 #1598574  by Shortline614
 
Both yes and no.

Yes because CP bought the CMQ back when very few people expected them to do so. Yes because CP certainly wouldn't have had to spend upwards of $200 million to purchase and rebuild the CMQ. Yes because CP would have been able to better compete against CN by getting in on the Port of Saint John expansion earlier. Hunter Harrison, love him or hate him, saw the sale of the lines east of Montreal as a massive strategic mistake and he was right.

No, because at the time they were sold, the lines east of Montreal were always an operational headache serving a barren territory with little to no traffic. This was only exacerbated by the de-industrialization of Maine and the Maritimes in the latter half of the 20th century. They simply weren't profitable anymore. CP tried to make them profitable by setting up the Canadian Atlantic Railway, a subsidiary complete with its own marketing department; however, it failed. It was a lost cause, at least at the time. Plus, CP thought it could take all that traffic bound for the Port of Saint John and reroute it to New York/New Jersey via the D&H, making it profitable. CP's thought process was why waste millions of dollars per year on an unprofitable line to a small port when we have access to the largest port on the Eastern Seaboard?

Now of course CP's plans for the D&H never panned out. Despite its best efforts and what seemed like infinite patience, it remained unprofitable right up until most of it was sold in 2015. To paraphrase Norfolk Southern's famous VP for Strategic Planning Jim McClellan. "CP bought the D&H, god knows why they bothered. They spun-off a low-density network in Maine and the Maritimes only to turn around and buy a low-density network in the Northeast."

The Irving Roads (Maine Northern, Eastern Maine, New Brunswick Southern) will never be sold back to CP or any other railroad for that matter. First of all, the Irving Family's business mentality is that if you buy something, you keep it. Second, before CP-CMQ and CSX-PAR, the Irving Roads were a local operation mostly focusing on forestry products. With the introduction of two Class I railroads that both want access to the expanding Port of Saint John, the Irving Roads are set to become quite the "cash cow" in the next few years. They will become a Maine/Maritime version of the Florida East Coast. A highly-profitable, highly-strategic, independent property that survives by playing to a niche.
 #1598612  by JayBee
 
CN9634 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:23 am No idea man.

Ask Fred Green.
William W. Stinson was President and CEO of Canadian Pacific at the time that the line was sold to Iron Road in 1995. He was the CEO when the D&H was purchased in 1991. So CP owned the D&H before they sold the CAR. Fred Green didn't come along until 2006.
 #1598613  by JayBee
 
JayBee wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:20 am
CN9634 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:23 am No idea man.

Ask Fred Green.
William W. Stinson was President and CEO of Canadian Pacific at the time that the line was sold to Iron Road in 1995. He was the CEO when the D&H was purchased in 1991. So CP owned the D&H before they sold the CAR. And before anyone blames him Fred Green did not selloff the "Corn Lines" only to buy them back a few years later, Robert Ritchie sold the Kansas City line to I&M Raillink. Fred Green didn't come along until 2006.
 #1598879  by fromway
 
Did not live in Maine at the time of the CP sale. Does Irving own the lines that they operation or do they lease them from the state of Maine? I can not see Irving giving up what has been previously called a future "Cash Cow" by selling to anyone.