conductors / engineers, thoughts on this external web thread

[crazy_nip]

http://www.flrails.com/cgi-bin/forums/i ... &#entry560

check it out, from an operational standpoint, how do you feel about this?

specifically do you agree with the crewman who posted this?

[slchub]

For the most part railfans that I have seen are excited about thier hobby. NP. But when I hear guys start talking about calling the railroad when the headlights and ditchlights are off or dimmed, or a LEO railfan hitting the locomotive with radar and calling the MTO, hmmmm...then one has to wonder about what is going on in the heads of the railfans.

Are you telling me that railfans do not break the law when they drive such as speeding or not turning on the headlights when the first raindrop hits the windshield? Do all railfans abide by the rules at thier place of employment? We are all human and make mistakes.

Maybe this local had a new engineer off the extra board, who did not time his mile/speed to ensure that the speedo was calibrated correctly. Maybe the speedo was not working and the dispatcher/myo told them to work anyway disregarding the inop speedo.

I doubt the hogger would really jepordize his license by blatantly running over the posted limit in that area. Especially if the track is bad. But then again maybe his job insurance is paid up and he is looking for a little vacation.

I agree with CSX insomuchas the police officer does not know enough about the operations of the RR and should not be concerned with how the train is running.

[Guest]

Crew was speeding through town? Dumb@sses. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose by speeding. I really have no sympathy for the crew.


-r

[DutchRailnut]

FRA gives 5 Mph for Equipment error and 5 MPH for Engineer error.
So in my eyes the RFE unless he is a prick would give the Engineer a talking to not a suspention.
As far as Police officer My cellphone would have the mayor on speed dial, and don't let me see a cop in that town goofing off or sleeping anymore


PART 240_QUALIFICATION AND CERTIFICATION OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS--Table
of Contents

Subpart D_Administration of the Certification Programs

Sec. 240.305 Prohibited conduct.

After December 31, 1991,
(a) It shall be unlawful to:
(1) Operate a locomotive or train past a signal indication,
excluding a hand or a radio signal indication or a switch, that requires
a complete stop before passing it; or
(2) Operate a locomotive or train at a speed which exceeds the
maximum authorized limit by at least 10 miles per hour. Where restricted
speed is in effect, only those violations of the conditional clause of
restricted speed rules (i.e., the clause that requires stopping within
one half of the locomotive engineer's range of vision), or the
operational equivalent thereof, which cause reportable accidents or
incidents under part 225 of this chapter, shall be considered instances
of failure to adhere to this section; or
(3) Operate a locomotive or train without adhering to procedures for
the safe use of train or engine brakes when

[[Page 688]]

the procedures are required for compliance with the initial terminal,
intermediate terminal, or transfer train and yard test provisions of 49
CFR part 232 or when the procedures are required for compliance with the
class 1, class 1A, class II, or running brake test provisions of 49 CFR
part 238;
(4) Fail to comply with any mandatory directive concerning the
movement of a locomotive or train by occupying main track or a segment
of main track without proper authority or permission;
(5) Fail to comply with prohibitions against tampering with
locomotive mounted safety devices, or knowingly operate or permit to be
operated a train with an unauthorized disabled safety device in the
controlling locomotive. (See 49 CFR part 218, subpart D, and appendix C
to part 218);
(6) Be a Designated Supervisor of Locomotive Engineers, a certified
locomotive engineer pilot or an instructor engineer who is monitoring,
piloting or instructing a locomotive engineer and fails to take
appropriate action to prevent a violation of paragraphs (a)(1) through
(a)(5) of this section. Appropriate action does not mean that a
supervisor, pilot or instructor must prevent a violation from occurring
at all costs; the duty may be met by warning an engineer of a potential
or foreseeable violation. A Designated Supervisor of Locomotive
Engineers will not be held culpable under this section when this
monitoring event is conducted as part of the railroad's operational
compliance tests as defined in Sec. Sec. 217.9 and 240.303 of this
chapter.
(b) Each locomotive engineer who has received a certificate required
under this part shall:
(1) Have that certificate in his or her possession while on duty as
an engineer; and
(2) Display that certificate upon the receipt of a request to do so
from
(i) A representative of the Federal Railroad Administration,
(ii) An officer of the issuing railroad, or
(iii) An officer of another railroad when operating a locomotive or
train in joint operations territory.
(c) Any locomotive engineer who is notified or called to operate a
locomotive or train and such operation would cause the locomotive
engineer to exceed certificate limitations, set forth in accordance with
subpart B of this part, shall immediately notify the railroad that he or
she is not qualified to perform that anticipated service and it shall be
unlawful for the railroad to require such service.
(d) During the duration of any certification interval, a locomotive
engineer who has a current certificate from more than one railroad shall
immediately notify the other certifying railroad(s) if he or she is
denied recertification by a railroad or has his or her certification
revoked by a railroad.
(e) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to alter a certified
locomotive engineer's duty to comply with other provisions of this
chapter concerning railroad safety.

[Jtgshu]

Judging by some of the posts I see on this site by some railfans, in particular about speeding..............for example.........you know you'll have seen them.....

'"I saw XYZ train going through Joeblowville at one thousand miles and hour on this date at this time - i know because I had my GPS on or I was pacing them in my car - the speed for there is XX, they were going YY too fast!!!!

Any comments???"

I wouldn't be completely and totally surprised if it was a railfan with a radar gun - who just "happened" to be a police officer, but It could have been a police officer as well doing radar on teh train - had that at my railroad not too long ago........

.....yes, the train was speeding for that stretch of track - but the railroad should have acted on the tip, and put their own people out there and did THEIR OWN radar - not rely solely on a download - which, IMO, shouldn't be the only piece of "evidence" against the engineer. The download could be wrong, the equipment and speed sensors could be malfuctioning, there are countless different types of errors to get in a download.

And the town of Clearwater or whatever town it was, im sure will be made aware of the train horns blowing for ALL the crossing, abiding by the new FRA rules to the T!!!!!!!!!1

[Guest]

.....yes, the train was speeding for that stretch of track - but the railroad should have acted on the tip, and put their own people out there...

All the TM had to do was "pull the tapes" from the event recorder.

-r

[Jtgshu]

Im sure they did just pull the tapes, but having seen the "tapes" pulled a few times, and trying to be analyzed by the mechanical forces, quite often, they are inconsistant -

I remember there was one instance, where I was in teh office right when they downloaded a train, and brought the info upstairs to read it......There were 2 speed sensors, one wasn't working at all, the other was giving off crazy readings - 0 to something like 130mph in a matter of 30 secs, and other wild fluctuations. The senior TM came in, and asked about it, adn they said, we can't use this data, no good - then the TM said something to the effect of, okay - ill just have to talk to him and warn him, he lucked out this time.

But im sure that every other railroad in the country keeps their equipment running in tip top shape, and everything working fine, and mine is just an exception!!! HAHAHAHAHA

IMHO, I feel that the tapes shouldn't the end all and be all in speed violations, however they were reported

[Guest]

IMHO, I feel that the tapes shouldn't the end all and be all in speed violations.....

On the NS, it's all the evidence the company needs, the unions also accept the tapes as evidence.

I don't think the TM with a radar gun is a better way to go.

-r

[slchub]

Best bet, time your miles, keep it 2-3 mph under, and you will be fine. My philosophy is the TD is going to screw me to death by putting me away for 3 three hours when I run track speed. Even at 35 mph, I'll get to the AFHT by the time I reach 12 hours.

[Robert Paniagua]

As for rapid transit operations, it's different. Say you have a 50mph code, motorpersonnel must actually be at "49", and if it's 35, they must be at 34, this is to minimize the chances of having the penalty brake to activate.

I thought some railroads have this too, even if their trains go 5 mph above the limit, I know that Amtrak does with their NEC (ACSES).

[UPRR engineer]

Best bet, time your miles, keep it 2-3 mph under, and you will be fine. My philosophy is the TD is going to screw me to death by putting me away for 3 three hours when I run track speed. Even at 35 mph, I'll get to the AFHT by the time I reach 12 hours.

Sorry to hear you have became the type of hog you once hated. Some times your hot, and sometimes your not. When i be came a firemen i picked out the hogs i liked to work with, and told myself i was gonna do my best to be like them. Have you been listening to Skid a bit too much there buddy?

"OH MY LORD...... A SPEEDING FREIGHT TRAIN" I know NS is a bit harder on you chaps than the UP is on us there razor. I sometimes run 5 over, maybe a little more, now and then for a short stretch. I dont have the fear that alot of guys carry around with them everyday, "i dont wanna do anything that will have a manager talking to me". If i was a MOP and rode with a engineer that wouldnt do track speed (or more) id be asking him "you gonna run this thing?" "Show me what ya got"

I got on a K train (75mph on most of them now a days) with some new EMD's on the point. Once we got up to 75 the overspeed took us, the MPM was still up there at around 10 or so. That might have been the reason for the penalty. The conductor said maybe we should do 70 now, i said think will do 74.

Another time before that, my first K train i ran, the engineer stood on the nose ranting and raving that the speed-o-meter didnt work. I said "who needs one to run wide open" .........(swear words)........crap hogs like that.
Thats about the fastest i ever ran. Brakeman asked how fast i thought we were going, at least 75, we were flying. The point of being an engineer is to run the damb thing, if a guy cant do that he shouldnt be sitting in the seat.

[jg greenwood]

Are you aware that if you kill someone at a road crossing a sharp lawyer can, and probably will, determine if you've been speeding ANYWHERE prior to the accident? If you're guilty of speeding, can you spell MANSLAUGHTER? It's not a question of lack of nads, it's common sense!

[UPRR engineer]

DutchRailnut pretty much told everyone the rules, the FRA gives you 5 MPH jg. What is it about you and human life, and crossings? I think you worry too much about things that could go wrong when you run buddy. Thats too bad, i really mean it. That takes all the fun out of running a train.

[jg greenwood]

DutchRailnut pretty much told everyone the rules, the FRA gives you 5 MPH jg. What is it about you and human life, and crossings? I think you worry too much about things that could go wrong when you run buddy. Thats too bad, i really mean it. That takes all the fun out of running a train.

You are, unfortunately, living proof that ANYONE can carry an engineer's card.

[UPRR engineer]

All i said was i think you worry too much and you take a swing at me again.