Commuter rail service before the Southwest Corridor

I figure I'll throw this in here instead of opening a new thread. When was service extended to Newburyport and why wasn't it extended to Portsmouth?

Extending it to Portsmouth would require repairing or replacing a bridge over the Merrimack River, as well as financial help from the state of New Hampshire. I expect it will eventually happen, but not for a while.

I used to watch trains from the road bridge over the SWC at the former Mt. Hope station. There were still some telltale signs of hte station, like a set of stairs made out of ties and a couple old lightposts with metal shades.

Does anyone know why they cut that stop? The Hyde Park Ave. part of Roslindale doesn't have any other public transit exept the Cleary Square bus, and Mt. Hope was no closer to Forest Hills than Roslindale Village is.

Arborwayfan wrote:I used to watch trains from the road bridge over the SWC at the former Mt. Hope station. There were still some telltale signs of hte station, like a set of stairs made out of ties and a couple old lightposts with metal shades.

Does anyone know why they cut that stop? The Hyde Park Ave. part of Roslindale doesn't have any other public transit exept the Cleary Square bus, and Mt. Hope was no closer to Forest Hills than Roslindale Village is.

Any pictures of this Mt. Hope stop? Also, was Hyde Park and Readville station there before SW Corridor construction.

Hyde Park and Readville were. Fairmount was not.

Weren't the original plans for the SW Corridor for the Orange Line to be extended all the way down to Rt 128 station? Too bad that didn't happen, if it were the plans.

rhodiecub2 wrote:Weren't the original plans for the SW Corridor for the Orange Line to be extended all the way down to Rt 128 station? Too bad that didn't happen, if it were the plans.

There's no need for Orange Line style frequency at Route 128 Station. 128 is adequately served by commuter rail, and at a distance that far from the city, commuter rail is the best choice for service. Few people want to stand on an Orange Line train for 30+ minutes.

dudeursistershot wrote: There's no need for Orange Line style frequency at Route 128 Station. 128 is adequately served by commuter rail, and at a distance that far from the city, commuter rail is the best choice for service. Few people want to stand on an Orange Line train for 30+ minutes.

Are you sure? What about the people who ride the red line from Braintree?
Or the ones who ride the green line - D from Riverside?

The increased frequencies of subway service (especially off-peak), combined with a more flexible set of destinations without a transfer, are definite contributions toward making transit more appealing, especially from a collector station with easy access to the highway of Rt. 128.

Washington's Metro uses long-distance subway running as an augment/improvement to the local commuter rail services provided by VRE and MARC with good results -- all lines reach the beltway at at least one point -- and the Red Line extends beyond the beltway a significant distance, especially to Shady Grove. This station recently had its parking garage greatly expanded .... they are used.

rhodiecub2 wrote:Weren't the original plans for the SW Corridor for the Orange Line to be extended all the way down to Rt 128 station? Too bad that didn't happen, if it were the plans.

A circa 1971 MBTA rapid transit expansion plan (which also called for the Red Line to Braintree and a yet-to-happen Blue Line extension to Lynn) projected that the Orange Line would be extended out the Needham Branch right-of-way through Roslindale and West Roxbury to Needham Junction. Had that happened, there presumably would have been a big park-and-ride station where the line crosses Route 128. I have a vague recollection that an Orange Line extension along the mainline to the Route 128/Westwood station might have been discussed at some point, but I believe the Needham option was the only one that made it into the formal proposal stage. At the time the idea of extending rapid transit lines along railroad rights-of-way was fairly new and wonderful. The Oak Grove extension was already under construction.

There's no need for Orange Line style frequency at Route 128 Station. 128 is adequately served by commuter rail, and at a distance that far from the city, commuter rail is the best choice for service. Few people want to stand on an Orange Line train for 30+ minutes.

Actually, I could use some Orange Line Style Service there, especially since 128 is popular, especially since it's the same distance as Quincy Adams and since the Orange line was originally supposed to be extended there, but it wasn't.

Maybe CSX conductor can answer this one for me

ckb wrote:Washington's Metro uses long-distance subway running as an augment/improvement to the local commuter rail services provided by VRE and MARC with good results -- all lines reach the beltway at at least one point -- and the Red Line extends beyond the beltway a significant distance, especially to Shady Grove. This station recently had its parking garage greatly expanded .... they are used.

Keep in mind that the Metro isn't a good comparison for the MBTA subways. The Metro runs cars with ample 2-and-2 seating, with armrests and padded cushions, carpeting, quiet on-board atmosphere, and speeds approaching 70 mph. Riding the Metro often is often closer to riding EMU commuter rail than an old style subway.

Keep in mind that the Metro isn't a good comparison for the MBTA subways. The Metro runs cars with ample 2-and-2 seating, with armrests and padded cushions, carpeting, quiet on-board atmosphere, and speeds approaching 70 mph. Riding the Metro often is often closer to riding EMU commuter rail than an old style subway.

LOL that's true, Riding the WMATA is more like riding the MBCR. Just about. Since it's far better than our Red Line, Orange Line, etc, especially with the distance WMATA covers, far more that the MBTA subways.

Ron Newman wrote:Extending it to Portsmouth would require repairing or replacing a bridge over the Merrimack River, as well as financial help from the state of New Hampshire. I expect it will eventually happen, but not for a while.

New Hampshire is very strict about dedicating its gas tax revenues to road projects only. I believe a lawsuit a couple of years ago reinforced this. Given how miserly NH is already, I don't see how this is going to happen anytime soon. If some kind of mitigation deal were brokered to couple extending one of the lines with the scheduled 93 widening, it might be one such opportunity, but it's still a difficult case to make since the most likely candidates for extension -- the Lowell and Newburyport lines -- aren't anywhere near 93 and are unlikely to affect how many motorists use it.

Extending it to Portsmouth would require repairing or replacing a bridge over the Merrimack River, as well as financial help from the state of New Hampshire. I expect it will eventually happen, but not for a while.

If you included Kittery and York in the extension you could rely on Maine to help contribute to the project. I have only anectodal evidence, but I've heard support for the project from people I know in the area. Plus, extending the line to York would give Boston and the North Shore access to the beaches and shopping outlets, promoting travel both ways. a win win situation.

I posted a similar response in the thread on the Globe article about commuter rail, though it might have been better posted here.

scoopernicus_in_Maine wrote:If you included Kittery and York in the extension you could rely on Maine to help contribute to the project.

Unfortunately, if you're talking about commuter service via Portsmouth and the former B&M Eastern Route, extending it north of Kittery would require rebuilding track on a right-of-way that has been abandoned and trackless for decades. The cost of land acquisition alone would make it impossible. I suppose that in theory trains via Portsmouth could head west to Rockingham Junction and then north, but you've already got the "Downeaster" service on the mainline and a slower secondary service to York would be sort of redundant.

There are enough stirrings in New Hampshire about restoring service to Nashua and Manchester that I can see that happening at some point in the next few years. Portsmouth make sense too if you look at a map, but rebuilding the big swing bridge at Newburyport that's been locked in place and rusting since the 1960s will be a huge expense on top of all the usual costs associated with service restorations. Too bad New Hampshire didn't come up with subsidy money for the B&M in the 1960s like Massachusetts did -- if that had happened, the trains never would have come off in the first place.