City Branch (was "Abandoned SEPTA Rail tunnel in philly?")

Does anyone have information on other abandoned tunnels? Years ago I read that much of the tunnel infrastructure exists for a Center City Loop using Arch Street for the return leg. I've also seen what appears to be a stub tunnel extending east of 13th St. from the S-S loop at Juniper.

JeffK wrote:I've also seen what appears to be a stub tunnel extending east of 13th St. from the S-S loop at Juniper.

That's all it is and ever was. It's a real tease!

Last I heard it's OOS due to a reptilian issue.

Clearfield wrote:

JeffK wrote:I've also seen what appears to be a stub tunnel extending east of 13th St. from the S-S loop at Juniper.

That's all it is and ever was. It's a real tease!

Thanks, Clearfield! I knew someone would have more info.

Last I heard it's OOS due to a reptilian issue.

Snakes on a train ???!!

JeffK wrote:Snakes on a train ???!!

No, a bad frog. Seriously.

Suburban Station wrote:[not to mention the, err, art museum, which recently discovered vaulted ceilings in a subterranean hallway that was intended to house the parkway line subway stop].

I'd also like to see evidence that the vaulted ceiling subterranean hallway has anything to do with a subway stop. And wadda ya mean 'recently'? I've seen posts for what seems like about 5 years talking about this, as far as I know it's just a rumor.

Clearfield wrote:

JeffK wrote:I've also seen what appears to be a stub tunnel extending east of 13th St. from the S-S loop at Juniper.

That's all it is and ever was. It's a real tease!

It was a 2 car stub, cut back to 1 car long to make room for the Suburban Station to Market East railroad tunnel in the 1980's. And it extends north of Market St from the S-S loop, which at that point is running south to north under Juniper St, half a block west of and parallel to 13th.

Since the Kawasaki cars have couplers, presumably the better to tow you with my dear, at least maybe better than their PCC tow, or in the case of a disabled car in front of you, push, bars, coupled (hee hee) with the stub having room to store only 1 disabled car, I don't think it's useful enough to matter much if it's in service or not.

I think you meant "amphibious issue", Bob.

JeffK wrote:Does anyone have information on other abandoned tunnels? Years ago I read that much of the tunnel infrastructure exists for a Center City Loop using Arch Street for the return leg. I've also seen what appears to be a stub tunnel extending east of 13th St. from the S-S loop at Juniper.

Here's what you're looking for:
Copy of Drawing #944 - Plan of Subway Delivery Loop. -- Revised to provide for station in Broad Street between Chestnut and Walnut Streets by the occupation of Locust Street instead of Walnut Street.
http://phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/D ... etId=41358

How much was built? Well, not very much. But that's where it would go! Including up the Parkway!

Junction at Broad & Arch:
http://phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/D ... etId=41376

Hmm.Drawing #3891 - Broad Street Subway - Pine Street to Vine Street and Subway Delivery Loop - Express Tracks Central Through City Hall.
http://phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/D ... etId=41817

Patrick Boylan wrote:Since the Kawasaki cars have couplers, presumably the better to tow you with my dear, at least maybe better than their PCC tow, or in the case of a disabled car in front of you, push, bars, coupled (hee hee) with the stub having room to store only 1 disabled car, I don't think it's useful enough to matter much if it's in service or not.

The Kawasaki Cars' couplers are full MU style couplers and when they're coupled there's full trainline functions and the lead car can control the propulsion of both cars.

Can't forget this 1918 photo of the never used portion of the Arch Street subway near 10th street.http://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=41715 and a 1962 shot of the same tunnelhttp://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=71133http://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=71134

City Branch controversies are being stirred up again:

http://hiddencityphila.org/2012/06/what ... ight-rail/

http://hiddencityphila.org/2012/06/what ... ransitway/

A big deal is always made of finding a place for the trolley's to turn (if you were to return the city line to transit as a trolley). Why not just run double-ended 101/102 style trolleys? It would add a little time at each end for the driver to change, but the cost of infrastructure would be significantly less.

Are there extra 101/102 units which could be used as a short-term solution if this were to be done?

DeltaV wrote:Are there extra 101/102 units which could be used as a short-term solution if this were to be done?

Unlikely. I believe there are only 30 double-ended K-cars.

There is (or was) a turning loop along the 1100 block of Bainbridge, as well as around the 4000 block of Girard/Parkside. Instead of having light rail poke all the way down to South Street, though--not that that's necessarily a bad thing--you could install a turning loop along Locust.

Viable equipment would likely be like what's used on Boston's Green Line.

If you link the Ridge Spur and the City Branch cut together, you can use BSL-standard cars together, however, and the existing terminus at 8th/Market. It would also take advantage of an existing electric envelope, instead of having to remanufacture one for the trolley wire, keeping costs low on that front.

DeltaV wrote:A big deal is always made of finding a place for the trolley's to turn (if you were to return the city line to transit as a trolley). Why not just run double-ended 101/102 style trolleys? It would add a little time at each end for the driver to change, but the cost of infrastructure would be significantly less.

Are there extra 101/102 units which could be used as a short-term solution if this were to be done?

Good idea on running double-ended, but suburban K-cars are right out; a new service wouldn't be able to use their ADA waiver.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:I think you meant "amphibious issue", Bob.

As I observed yesterday, the errant amphibian and the stub track have been completely removed.