Buzzards Bay Rail Study (again!)

pdxstreetcar wrote:what stops did the cape codder make?

In 1996, it was Taunton, Wareham, Buzzards Bay, Sandwich, West Barnstable and Hyannis.

That was the year they ran from Boston to Providence with a cross platform transfer from points south, then out to the Cape.

Don't know if the other years were different.

I personally think the sad reality is it's never coming back down to the Cape itself.To make commuter operation work you'd have to significantly
upgrade the track speeds on this side of the bridge.35-40 MPH won't do it.
Also,I've been told that it costs something like $5000 to to drop and lift that bridge each time a train goes over it.Can someone confirm that figure?So tally that in also if it's true,which some agency will have to pay for.Odds are it won't be the MBTA, Amtrak or The Cape Cod Regional Transportation Authority,which barely has enough money to keep itself afloat.The best I think you can hope for is restoration of commuter rail
to Buzzards Bay with some sort of shuttle bus from Hyannis and Falmouth.
And that's in the very distant future,though this flyover just might suck the life out of any proposal made by anyone to the legislature.Remember
Fall River and New Bedford are ahead in line.

Hey MickD
Say that there was a possibilty to have Feeder Service from the Transportation Building at Hyannis, stopping at the few platforms along the way? Perhaps right up to Middleboro, but then cut back to Buzzards Bay if the T can agree to it?
Do you think that the ridership would be there? Obviously there are those that commute from the Cape to Plymouth or Middleboro now.
The Bridge lowering is a net cost to the Tourist line of a few hundred dollars.
Granted, the Cape Cod folks may not want Purple and Platinum Mist, 8 Car trainsets, but perhaps a less intrusive method? Maybe the Cape Cod Central could do it?

MEETING NOTICE BELOW
Reminder - Meeting of the BBVA Transportation Committee Thursday, Feb 16th 4pm at the offices of the Cape Cod Canal Regional Chamber of Commerce.

It might from June until October,after that I honestly don't know.If the trip could be made in an hour and forty five minutes total to Boston you might.
I use the P-B often and I would guess the average time when I do is
2 hours and 15 minutes over the course of the year.On Saturdays during the summer it's more.It's actually horrendous Saturday mornings after
9 AM inbound.They should be ashamed of that service.Most commuters during the week board at either Barnstable or Sagamore so beyond the peak months on Cape I have my doubts but from Buzzards Bay I think it
would do well.Wareham is growing.I think I read that 10% of the cars at
the Kingston station M-F are from Wareham so that says a base is there and from the surrounding towns.Another question would be whether
or not towns on The Cape would want to contribute financially to rail service in taxes.I don't think they would.Also NIMBYS in Barnstable and Sandwich might well be a problem.Cape Cod these days I'm afraid isn't
a progressive enough place to support commuter rail.

The NIMBY problem could be brought to light by all progressive rail advocates mentioning to them that they chose, of their own free will and volition, to purchase or rent property that is adjacent to a rail line that's been in place for over 150 years. no one forced these imbeciles to do so, unless there's a law I'm unaware of . LOL!
A possible solution that I heard someone mention is that a "buffer zone" could be established along a railroad ROW. This zone would exclude construction of residences within perhaps 100 feet of a rail line, whether dormant or active.
If an individual insists on building his/her house within the buffer zone, that person should be made to sign a release that would release any rail operator, present or future, from any liability of any inconvenience, damage, etc. that may arise from rail operations, present or future.
Sound harsh? Maybe, but look at the policy of swaths of highway built in this country, and people living along freeways which, IMO, makes more noise and is more damaging to the surrounding environment than any railway.
Such a "buffer zone" practice could prove invaluable to restoring rail services as well as possible future rail reconstruction on preserved ROWs,
(e.g. Falmouth)

You're right Atlantis,no one forced them to buy.Unfortunately I think as much a problem as the nimbys is the fiscal fact that towns will have to raise their taxes to help pay for it.Not likely to be a very popular sentiment down here.In that last CC Times article even John Kennedy took a very guarded position on restoration.Better to start it from Buzzards Bay.I understand the T is open to the possibility,and hope what I truly expect would be very successful operation,could be the impetus
for restoration into Hyannis.Personally I think N.Falmouth makes a lot of sense.CCRTA could,if they found the funds,could run a shuttle to Woods
Hole.

atlantis wrote:The NIMBY problem could be brought to light by all progressive rail advocates mentioning to them that they chose, of their own free will and volition, to purchase or rent property that is adjacent to a rail line that's been in place for over 150 years. no one forced these imbeciles to do so, unless there's a law I'm unaware of . LOL!
A possible solution that I heard someone mention is that a "buffer zone" could be established along a railroad ROW. This zone would exclude construction of residences within perhaps 100 feet of a rail line, whether dormant or active.
If an individual insists on building his/her house within the buffer zone, that person should be made to sign a release that would release any rail operator, present or future, from any liability of any inconvenience, damage, etc. that may arise from rail operations, present or future.
Sound harsh? Maybe, but look at the policy of swaths of highway built in this country, and people living along freeways which, IMO, makes more noise and is more damaging to the surrounding environment than any railway.
Such a "buffer zone" practice could prove invaluable to restoring rail services as well as possible future rail reconstruction on preserved ROWs,
(e.g. Falmouth)

While that may work, it should be noted that the present property owners of the buffer land would be entitled to compensation for the loss to the value of their land due to the restriction, and that would be costly to taxpayers to fund.

Ah! but it should be noted that land values usually increase after passenger rail is restored

Again, it boils down to the original reason why a person chose to buy property along an active rail line in the first place.

Now if it's a dormant or "railbanked" line, such as the soon-to-be-bike path line from North Falmouth to the wasted Falmouth station, then one can understand the need to work with the abutters in this situation, assuming the line is reclaimed for rail use at some future point.

But on an already active line that's been in place for over 150 years, sorry to say, one should use better judgement if they're uncomfortable about trains going by their homes.

Land values might well increase with rail service were it competitive with
the P&B.That would take a very substantial investment that I'm not sure
either the state or the towns involved would be willing to make.It has to be in the ballpark of a one seat,2 hour or so trip into South Station for
it to be so.40 MPH to bridge might suffice for a token seasonal service of
say 2 to 3 trains in each direction from Mid-June to Columbus Day but
not for a daily commuter service.They might be persuaded were
restoration to Buzzards Bay prove to be success over a considerable
period of time.Don't forget you've also gotta' convince 2nd home owners in these towns that this justifies raising their taxes also.It's tough enough trying to sell it to a Metropolitan area, let alone in a place that most non-residents still consider a vacation area.Look at the Greenbush line as an example of how Nimby's almost managed to torpedo the very same thing
within 25 miles of Boston itself.

Considering the high percentage of seasonal residents on the cape, the very indirect rail route, the foot traffic across the right of way in the canal area, delays for the bridge, and the number of grade crossings, a regularly scheduled commuter rail service to the cape would tie up a lot of expensive equipment doing low speed sightseeing excursions through everybody's back yards. I cannot imagine how commuter rail in this environment could possibly be as cost effective as bus service.

I tend to agree with that but I'd be interested to know just how cost effective the P&B's service is.They got a free ride with this new transportation center andthey lease the buses from the CCRTA.I could see a seasonal train working as from May to October as their on time percentage has got to be among the worst in the Northeast.On the weekends abetween 8am and 8pm it's absymal.I've been at South Station more than once on a Saturday afternoon in the summer when a bus just
hasn't shown up or has come from Logan too crowded to take on more than afew passengers.

Let's not forget that the rail service that ran in the 1980's was popular.
It was discontinued because of funding cuts and politics, plain and simple, not because of ridership or any perceived harm it may have had on the Cape's environment. if that was the case, we should not have bus or airline service, or roads for that matter.
I also agree that P&B's bus service is subpar in some ways. When I was a kid, I used to ride both P&B and the CC&H rail service. It seemed like the P&B buses were a little nicer back then, as they had some competition to keep them on their toes. Now with the rail service gone, there's no competition, and the seats are tiny, compared to Greyhound and other bus companies. All too often, I've had too stand from South Station to the fake intermodal terminal in Hyannis

Here'a recent newspaper article on this topic:

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/04 ... 3local.htm

Source: The Standard Times, April 9, 2006 - Page A6

I wonder where it would make sense to put park-and-ride lots if/when the MTA establishes service to Wareham and Buzzards Bay.

There's no question that service to Buzzard's Bay is a great idea, and the cost per rider would be low enough to justify doing it. However, that isn't the way the T does things. The T has to worry about service to areas that a) have the most (commuter) congestion and
b) have the most economic need

By those standards, nearly half a dozen other projects, most of which are much more expensive, rank well ahead of this one. That's why Fall River/New Bedford will probably get done first, even though the cost per rider would be much higher, because those communities need Commuter Rail more. The folks in Wareham and Buzzards Bay would do well to emulate the folks in Nashua, and come up with some independent local development that can pay for the track and station work. Otherwise, it's going to be a long wait for the trains to arrive.