BSL Ridge Ave Spur

Tommy Meehan wrote:I rode the Ridge Avenue spur for the first time last Friday afternoon (I'm from New York) while riding around Philly.
tommy

I rode the Ridge Ave spur on Friday, too.

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery2/v/u ... -25+44.jpg

Bob

Mdlbigcat wrote:SEPTA restored the spur trains to its current EXPRESS service where it remains to the present.

Mdl I appreciate the background info you provided. Very interesting. But if you could, can you explain how the spur serves riders today? Especially rush hour riders? The spur trains originate at Lehigh and then run express to Girard? Isn't 8th Street a tad too far east on Market to serve most rush hour riders? Plus the lack of a free transfer to the MFL or subway/surface for people who work on Market west of City Hall? Or do people get off the Ridge Avenue train and switch to a Pattison local at Girard?

If these seem like stupid questions, sorry, but I'm from "out-of-town".


tommy

chuchu Bob thanks for linking your photos. Very nice, very sharp and clear. great color. After lunch at the Gallery Friday I went up to Wayne Jct. for a while. Friday was a beautiful day weather-wise as your photos really show.

tommy

I've got an idea. On another posting it speaks of the three old Broad St cars and the one Bridge car sitting up in Fern Rock that may be scrapped. Maybe Septa could create two 2 car trains of these heritage cars and run them on the Ridge Ave. Spur., Pretty soon there would be so many complaints from the patrons about the deteriorating service that Septa could then close the system because so many people were complaing about the poor service. After the the line is shut down they could just leave the cars in the tunnel to rust in peace.

The trouble is, using the old cars might actually increase ridership. By attracting railfans from all around the World who want to come and ride!

I vote for it!

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery2/v/u ... -25+25.jpg

Bob

Tommy Meehan wrote:

Mdlbigcat wrote:SEPTA restored the spur trains to its current EXPRESS service where it remains to the present.

Mdl I appreciate the background info you provided. Very interesting. But if you could, can you explain how the spur serves riders today? Especially rush hour riders? The spur trains originate at Lehigh and then run express to Girard? Isn't 8th Street a tad too far east on Market to serve most rush hour riders? Plus the lack of a free transfer to the MFL or subway/surface for people who work on Market west of City Hall? Or do people get off the Ridge Avenue train and switch to a Pattison local at Girard?

If these seem like stupid questions, sorry, but I'm from "out-of-town".


tommy

First, the Spur trains originate from Olney [after 6pm and on Saturdays, it starts at Fern Rock], Then makes stops at Erie, N.Philly, Girard, Fairmount, Chinatown[Vine St], and 8th and Market.

How the line serves riders is this: First off, 8th and Market has been Philly's retail center. Back in the day, the intersection boasted three major department stores [Lit Brothers, Gimbels, and Strawbridge and Clotheir] ans all three were the main[HQ] stores. In the 70's, Lits went out of business, and Gimbels moved to the Gallery [then was bought out by Sterns, then closed, then Clover took over, closed then K mart moved there now.], the Ridge Spur provided a shortcut for shoppers to these stores, and workers working in the Jefferson/Pennsylvania/Wills Eye Hospitals, Jewlers Row, and office developments in the Eastern End of Center City [like the Federal Building, Wachovia Bank operations, etc.], coming from the Northern portions of the City, without transferring to the Market-Frankford line.

If you were working west of City Hall, you'd stay on the Local or Express train to City Hall, and transfer to the MFSE or Subway Surface. The same procedure would work if you're coming from the South Philly stations [Walnut-Locust and all stations south up to Pattison].

Most people going to South Philly from 8th and Market would either take the MFSE to 15th St then transfer to the BSS, or better yet, just take the most direct way, using the bus [particularly if they lived EAST of Broad St]. Going up to Girard Ave then crossing over to catch a Southbound Local would be rather cumbersome, and out of the way.

Today, the Ridge Spur tends to serve as a secondary express line along with the regular EXPRESS trains on the North Broad portion of the BSS.

The spur really is quite useless, for what it costs and the number of people it serves. The only useful part is the added express service Girard-Olney. One nice thing I've noticed about the BSL is that if the operators are aware that a express/local is right behind them, they will wait at the station to allow passengers to transfer from express/local and vice versa.

The only way the spur would become useful is if it was reconnected to 18th-Locust and a joint fare instrument was used with PATCO. We'll never see the Locust St subway extended, but at the very least it would be nice to make it useful to Philadelphians who live in Philadelphia, instead of it being an extention of the "New Jersey" subway.

jfrey40535 wrote:The spur really is quite useless, for what it costs and the number of people it serves. The only useful part is the added express service Girard-Olney. One nice thing I've noticed about the BSL is that if the operators are aware that a express/local is right behind them, they will wait at the station to allow passengers to transfer from express/local and vice versa.

Far from it. When are you out there riding it? I spent the summer riding to North Philadelphia station on the Ridge Ave spur and every day the trains traveling in the peak were quite crowded. Admittedly the trains I was riding from 8th and Market to North Philly were quite empty, but then so were almost all the reverse peak trains on the BSS I saw during those times. On a few occassions it seemed to me that the BRS could have used another car or two, especially on the trains arriving at 8th and Market between 8 and 9 am.

The only way the spur would become useful is if it was reconnected to 18th-Locust and a joint fare instrument was used with PATCO. We'll never see the Locust St subway extended, but at the very least it would be nice to make it useful to Philadelphians who live in Philadelphia, instead of it being an extention of the "New Jersey" subway.

I agree that reincorporating the Ridge Ave subway into 8th and Market LL and the Locust St subway would be a good thing. It'd make 8th and Market capable of having a direct in-fare control transfer between PATCO, BRS and MFL trains. By running the Ridge Ave trains over to 15th-16th and Locust they'd be nearly every bit as useful to the riders as the express trains. Admittedly they might be a bit slower thanks to being routed a bit to the east, but I cannot imagine it being a large enough amout of time that people would transfer off the trains for an express.

The worst thing about the division between PATCO and SEPTA is that there is absolutely no reason for it and it's so easily rectified. PATCO is replacing their fare system, so all SEPTA has to do is adopt the same fare medium (or at least a compatible system) PATCO is using and work out a process for splitting fares or charging transfer fees. We're 20 years from SEPTA replacing their B-IVs and, with a rebuild to the Budd PATCO-Is, the same time from PATCO replacing their cars as well. We need to begin acting now if we want to improve the usefulness of the system. We need both systems to begin making arrangements for a compatible fare system and we need both of them to begin looking at compatible signaling and rolling stock upgrades.

But then at least PATCO has gotten more use out of the Locust St Subway than PTC ever did with their 6-8 hours of operation per day.

Wdobner wrote:But then at least PATCO has gotten more use out of the Locust St Subway than PTC ever did with their 6-8 hours of operation per day.

That's not quite fair to PTC, since South Jersey wasn't nearly as suburbanized in their day.

Wdobner wrote:
PATCO is replacing their fare system, so all SEPTA has to do is adopt the same fare medium (or at least a compatible system) PATCO is using and work out a process for splitting fares or charging transfer fees.

Given the sizes of their respective systems and the fact that PATCO is replacing their fare system anyway, ti hardly seems fair to put the onus on SETPA to make the systems compatible.

It's much easier for PACTO to change since they are so much smaller. They are changing anyway. Why make both systems replace their fare systems when just once change would work?

flynnt wrote:Why make both systems replace their fare systems when just once change would work?

Because its bloody well time Septa ditched its complex fare structure and joined the 1990s with a modern stored value card. Its high time they made the fare and transfer system less imposing for new riders. I was on the last P&W out a few weeks ago and had to warn a bunch of cabrini freshman that they were going to need a zone transfer fare on top of their transfer slip, which had already confused the hell out of them when combine with paying on exit. Calender week passes and ad hoc day passes don't help anyone, and the lack of a weekend pass or 3 day pass keeps tourists off the buses and rails.

So here how a stored value card should work, according to me. Use the NYMTA as a jumping off point. Use a two dollar base fare, 6 fares for 10, 13 for 20. Offer one free transfer or reentry within an hour of first using the card. Each additional transfer could be a half-fare of one dollar, so long as it is made within 2 hours of the initial entry.

On regional rails, the base fare would also be $2, with each additional zone being $1, and a $1 peak travel surcharge, meaning a maximum fare of $8 with current service, with additional zones should any restorations actually occur. Rail riders would have a larger window for transfers, based on how many zones they are traveling through.

Like NY, have unlimited passes, like $2 2 Hour Single Rides, 1, 2, 5, 10, 30 day passes. Offer weekend discounts for the tourists and partiers.

On the completely unrealistic side, it would be great if they would offer graces on the cards, like treating a 5 day pass as 5 seperate days rather than 5 consecutive days, so if you are out sick or have to buy one on a wednesday you're not wasting it. Or make passes alway last until the end of service on the last day, so a 24 hour pass purchase at 11pm on a friday doesn't turn into a pumpkin on saturday night at 11. Waive a transfer if it would leave just one dollar on the card, but the next boarding is a full fare.

Ok so ranting and raving a bit, and considering my kids kids will still be using the same damned tokens its all mute anyway.