Boston to White River Junction, VT

not trying to beat a dead horse here, but let's be honest. Just how many more active passenger train stations exist between White River and Springfield to Boston viz a viz White River to Greenfield to Wachusetts to North Station?

Is the track between springfield and worcester superior in condition to the PAS route? is the track geometry better between Springfield and Worcester? Probably, but don't you think that NS would leap at the chance to share in the cost in order to have 45 mile an hour freight speeds from Ayer to Wachusetts? Won't both lines require a lot of double tracking and related signalling?

Time wise,taking everything into consideration including freight scheduling, the Greenfield route is no worse than the old B&A and, depending on equipment utilized, could possibly turn out to be faster to downtown Boston. last but not least, the Greenfield gateway would indeed offer better service/connections to cambridge, the north shore,and the downeaster.

The route between Boston South Station and Greenfield via Springfield is only a few miles longer than the ex-B&M route via Fitchburg. Other than restoring double track Worcester - Springfield (which might not even be necessary) there's virtually nothing that would be required to route a Boston - Montreal train via Springfield. The PAS line between current MBTA end-of-service and Greenfield follows a twisty river, and even in Flying Yankee days had an MAS of 45. The opportunity for cross-platform changes at Springfield are also enticing. Also, MBTA hasn't shown a lot of willingness to open BON arrival or departure slots

Manchester NH represents a good sized city in its own right, but still isn't as big as Worcester.

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:14 am

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:54 am Given that the New Hampshire legislators pretty much ignore passenger rail funding, it's probably not a problem for THEM, just for US

Have you ever looked at New Hampshire's budget?
https://das.nh.gov/budget/Budget2020-20 ... 0Final.pdf
The entire budget is around $6.5 billion, and they spend around 10% of that, around $650 million, on all Transportation Department activities.

By comparison in Massachusetts, https://budget.digital.mass.gov/summary/fy20/enacted MassDOT is $573 million, only 1.3% of $43.6 Billion !! How does Massachusetts spend less on transportation than New Hampshire? 1. Cost of State Police is missing I think.

Do the NH and Mass budgets you're looking at include construction and maintenance money from the state gas tax, and the huge sums of federal money that the state gets from the federal gas tax for interstate highway and some other work (the 80 of the 80-20 match), and the federal aid to transit? Since those things have dedicated revenue sources they may be off budget. Mass Pike and Tobin Bridge tolls are not part of the state budget, either, any more than MBTA and RTA fares, because those are separate agencies; NH tolls may be similar.

I believe the MBTA hesitancy with BON slots has a lot to do with the upcoming draw bridge replacements and the related capacity effects.

The MBTA budget alone is over 2 billion for FY 2019. https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/file ... budget.pdf The MassDOT budget seems to mostly traffic signaling and design projects plus the Berkshire Flyer. There's two more sections of federal monies and trust spending that add up to a couple hundred more million (I didn't do the full math to be honest). https://budget.digital.mass.gov/summary ... t-tracking

Mass "hides" a lot of road spending in its aid to cities and towns.

As a % of all roads, Mass has a very low "state" highway mileage, so a lot of road spending is actually happening in non-DOT parts of the state budget, or is happening locally (and paid for by statewide-but-town-designated annual vehicle excise taxes)

I think NH is the opposite (or at least on the normal) side of things, with lots of state-maintained mileage as a % of all mileage.

This is also why Mass seems to have high overhead costs per dollar spent on roads (if you only look at the road budget, instead of the local aid+road budget)

are MA state built, expanded , maintained roads still only the parts outside of city limits? In our state all state, US, and interstate roads are the strict responsibility of the state DOT. You cannot even build a driveway in a city state route without DOT approval. Older state routes that have utilities along the road ( no longer allowed ) if emergency repairs needed go ahead but notify state immediately. State can and does change repairs post first repair.
This certainly make a big difference in total % of revenue spent on roads.

east point wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:14 pm are MA state built, expanded , maintained roads still only the parts outside of city limits? In our state all state, US, and interstate roads are the strict responsibility of the state DOT. You cannot even build a driveway in a city state route without DOT approval. Older state routes that have utilities along the road ( no longer allowed ) if emergency repairs needed go ahead but notify state immediately. State can and does change repairs post first repair.
This certainly make a big difference in total % of revenue spent on roads.

It isn’t based on city limits but yes there are sections of state Numbered highways (and US numbered highways.) I forget what the criteria is, but I don’t believe it’s just limited to cities either I think incorporated towns might have this in areas as well I think it’s about population density. Typically it becomes the city’s responsibility in the urban center. the state usually specifies a certain zone that is is considered the urban center and the city/town is responsible for all roads within that zone including numbered state/US highways. New Hampshire has this too and refers to the areas as “urban compacts.” The state Of New Hampshire does not maintain any roads within urban compact zones. In New Hampshire I believe only incorporated cities have urban compacts.

For those that live outside of New England, remember that New England is unique for its method of local government. It is home to the “New England town” and all populated areas of New England states are geographically divided into incorporated towns - No matter the population (with some exceptions in the northern reaches of VT/NH/ME where there are unpopulated and unincorporated wilderness areas of the state.) However as a result of the”New England town” concept counties aren’t as important in New England and much is done at the local city/town level.