Boston & Maine History

Maine Central NEVER had BL-2s!

Perhaps you are confused with the BAR that ran them for many years,in a variety of paint schemes.

Bud

My website only lists equipment by class (e.g. BL-2s or 70 ton hoppers) but it does include diesel, steam, freight, passenger and paint scheme info for the 1930s - 1960s: http://www.faracresfarm.com/rr/bmrr/b_and_m.html

For the sake of future posting clarity, what is/was the name/official company reference/most common informal name of the B&M main line from Boston to Portland that is currently the GRS/PAR main line today?

During the lifetime of contributors to this forum, it was referred to as the Western Route in employee timetables. Up to Haverhill MA it is now MBTA, beyond that it is PAR.

PBM

Recently on the NE Rail Photo Archive and elsewhere there have been substantial numbers of photos posted from the pre-GRS B&M era. I have noticed with some surprise that in these photos the physical track conditions i.e. ballast, ties, track alignment of the B&M facilities appear to be inferior to those on GRS main lines today. I have always understood things to have been 'historically' the opposite, that conditions on the B&M tracks were actually quite good until the buyout by GRS in 1983. Can anyone confirm or deny this idea?

As a general rule, the B&M's mainline trackage was in pretty rough shape in the early 1970s following years of deferred maintenance, but got a lot of attention in the late 1970s/early 80s time frame under the Dustin administration, including major work on the Fitchburg Division. The basic freight speed limit between Fitchburg and Mechanicville at the time of the Guilford takeover was 40 mph, and rails, ties, and ballast were all in good shape. The only B&M route that is in significantly better condition today than in 1982 is Haverhill-Portland, thanks to the public funding that accompanied the restoration of passenger service.

gokeefe wrote:For the sake of future posting clarity, what is/was the name/official company reference/most common informal name of the B&M main line from Boston to Portland that is currently the GRS/PAR main line today?

The territory from Boston to Lowell Jct. (referred to as "CPF-LJ" in the PAR timetable) is the West Route Main Line. The territory from CPF-LJ to Portland is the Freight Main Line. Today, a lot of people just use the location name as there is no other railroad to confuse it with.

In the B&M days it was called the Western Route Main Line (or just the "West Route") all the way. It was also referred to as the "Portland Main Line West". And to cut off the nitpickers the B&M territory stopped at the west end of Rigby Yard, and it was Portland Terminal trackage from there. I don't know what the PT officially called it.

And, of course, today's Downeaster uses the New Hampshire Main Line Boston to Wilmington, and the Wildcat Branch from Wilmington to Wilmington Jct before heading on to Portland.

DAW

Thank You to all who have replied to my previous posts...

Does anyone know what the track speed was in places like the Western Main Line Route or on the Lower Road in Augusta? I'm curious to know what the maximum permitted line speeds ever were on these tracks as a comparison to what they are now and might be in the future.

In 1980, the basic speed limit on the B&M Western Route between Lowell Junction and PT Tower 1 outside Portland was 40 mph for freight. (Back in 1964, before passenger service was discontinued, passenger trains were generally allowed 70 mph.) As for the MEC Lower Road, at that time it too was generally 40 mph from the PT terminal limit outside Portland to Winslow, just outside Waterville.

There were assorted local speed limits for curves and crossovers and such on both lines, but those were the default limits.

Mr. Nelligan,
Am I to understand from your post that the freight speed for the Lower Road was 40 mph and passenger speed was 70 mph like the Western Route or was the passenger speed on the Lower Road 40 mph as well?

I'm pretty impressed by the fact that the Western Route at present is well enough maintained to allow track speeds in excess (currently 79 mph) of what they were at their height under B&M management. I am assuming to a certain extent that this means the Downeaster is currently making the trip between Portland and Boston faster than the old B&M serivce did. Obviously some key factors such as double-tracking have not yet been replicated but perhaps that will be done in the future.

In some previous discussions on various threads related to the Downeaster some posts have noticed that according to historical schedules there were six daily depatures each day from Portland to Boston when the B&M had full passenger service to Portland. Currently the Downeaster has five daily departures from Portland. I believe one of the milestones in the growth of the Downeaster will be when it surpasses or equals the level of service that the B&M provided. I am interested in keep track of this standard as the Downeaster hopefully continues its rapid growth.

On another Downeaster note, did all depatures from Portland have more than one class of service or were some the daily departures "coach only". Thanks for all your answers. It's really interesting to me to understand from a historical perspective how current service measures up to what is being provided now.

gokeefe wrote:Am I to understand from your post that the freight speed for the Lower Road was 40 mph and passenger speed was 70 mph like the Western Route or was the passenger speed on the Lower Road 40 mph as well?

The Maine Central was freight only, so it did not post separate freight and passenger speed limits like the B&M. Any passenger specials would have been limited to 40 mph.

I'm pretty impressed by the fact that the Western Route at present is well enough maintained to allow track speeds in excess (currently 79 mph) of what they were at their height under B&M management. I am assuming to a certain extent that this means the Downeaster is currently making the trip between Portland and Boston faster than the old B&M serivce did.

No, the Downeaster isn't faster endpoint to endpoint. Through the 1950s the B&M ran couple limited-stop Boston-Portland expresses in as little as two hours in spite of a top speed of 70 mph, and many trains covered the route in less than 2 hours 30 minutes.

On another Downeaster note, did all depatures from Portland have more than one class of service or were some the daily departures "coach only".

At the end (1960s) all trains were spartan RDCs shared with the commuter pool, but previously many had meal service (lounge cars and/or diners) and some through trains to northern Maine and the Maritimes carried sleepers as well

TomNelligan wrote:The Maine Central was freight only, so it did not post separate freight and passenger speed limits like the B&M.

Beg your pardon? The MEC most certainly did have passenger service...

MEC407 wrote:

TomNelligan wrote:The Maine Central was freight only, so it did not post separate freight and passenger speed limits like the B&M.

Beg your pardon? The MEC most certainly did have passenger service...

Of course I know that! But it was freight only at the time referenced in the post that prompted that question (circa 1980), whereas the B&M was not. Perhaps I should have been more explicit.

B&M Timetable 30, which took effect September 29, 1940, shows eight first class trains Boston-Portland via the Western Route (technically Mon-Fri, with some weekend changes to the schedule).

101 dep Bos 2:10AM, arr Portland 6:08AM
11 dep Bos 9:40AM, arr Portland 11:45AM
15 dep Bos 12N, arr Portland 1:50PM
123 dep Bos 1:15PM, arr Portland 3:50PM
19 dep Bos 4:25PM, arr Portland 6:35PM
147 dep Bos 4:55PM, arr Portland 7:54PM
21 dep Bos 7PM, arr Portland 10:15PM
23 dep Bos 9:30PM, arr Portland 11:55PM

Looks like 15 was fastest over the road at one hour and fifty minutes. Unsure if this was historically the heaviest frequency of first class trains on the Western Route but tend to doubt it personally.

By June 12, 1960, when TT 74 took effect, there were five daily first class trains Boston-Portland. No. 15 still left Boston at Noon but arrived in Portland at 2:15PM.

Bob

Bob,
How come four hours for 101?
Steve