Amtrak vs Flying

Yeah so i wanted to start a discussion about this but I really have little to start off with. I can say that taking the train from boston to florida, minus the cost of the roomettes, is about the same. The rooms made it much much more expensive to take the train. Comparing a train with a roomette to a single seat on a plane might seem like an uneven comparison at first, but when you consider the amount of time you're on the train, most people would find it very difficult sitting in an amtrak coach seat for 30 hours straight. The price really makes flying the more economical choice. Leaving amtrak as the choice for people that don't like to fly, or are railroad.net members

l008com wrote:amtrak coach seat for 30 hours straight

I'll sit in a seat for three days straight or more. But I guess I'm ruled out because I'm a railroad.net member. But I have flown once in my life, when I was 1 1/2 years old to California. I've ridden one Amtrak train, Amtrak from New Rochelle, NY to Boston, MA before electrification. But I family ussually drive cross country. See the landscape and could go to any line I want.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, I myself don't like being it the same seat for more than 24 hrs ( why I hate driving). But you really have to look at it another way would you rather be on the train or a Greyhound bus? As almost as many people take the bus compared to flying. I think given those options hands down there's no way you could pry me or anyone on this site away from Amtrak! You would have to pull the Amtrak ticket out of my kung fu grip hand!

I swore of airlines when in 99' AIR TRANSAT tried to kill me ( Plane almost crashed, Had Emergency landing) on a flight from Toronto To Orlando.

Well as someone who is horizontonally challenged I much prefer Amtrak (and their bathrooms) over planes. But if I'm going to FL or CA from MA, sorry...but I have been thinking about going to Chicago on the Lake Shore. But NYC, Portland, ME...All Aboard Amtrak!

My employer does not give me a choice. I'm allowed one business day to get where I'm going, be it Orlando Florida or any of several posts, camps, and stations within the US. I fly. Indeed most of the installations are not served by Amtrak in any convenient fashion.

When I have leisure time, when the travel can be part of the vacation, then Amtrak, and a sleeper (or a business class seat), become an option.

This what I'd bear.
Lake Shore Limited to Chicago
transfer to the Empire Builder
Cascades and Amtrak California to LA
transfer to the Southwest Chief to Chicago
Get Back on the LSL to Boston.
I could take it.

I travel from Connecticut to Orlando Flordia every year some times twice a year. I prefer to use Amtrak and I use a roomette. I treat the train travel as part of my vacation and relax and enjoy the ride. When I flew I just didn't enjoy it like I used to. I'm planning a visit to Boston Philly and Washington D.C. And will use Amtrak to get there.

Off topic, but Mr. ATSF's itinerary certainly sounds like my first Circle Trip during June 1962:

NY-Chi Century
Chi-Sea North Coast Ltd
Sea-Ptl UP Pool
Ptl-SF Shasta Daylight
SF-LA Coast Daylight
LA-Chi Super
Chi-NY Broadway

I am astounded that 47 years later, it is still possible to make that journey (and 60% of it on the same rails); no comment on whether one SHOULD still be able to make the journey.

Returning to topic, air travel and Amtrak Coach are simply not a reasonable comparo for the reasons noted by Mr. Budah. No one is about to say that air travel "in the back of the bus" is exactly an enjoyable experience, but it is "over and done" in less than a day from anywhere to anywhere in North America or Europe.

Finally, while I know that several here have gone to considered lengths to point out to Department heads that LD rail travel is cost effective in certain markets, most of the business travel world is analogous to what Col. Perkowski cites. Likely 99% of the Corporate Travel Desks away from the NEC have not ever handled a rail itinerary - and the learning curve to do so would be quite "cost ineffective".

atsf sp wrote:This what I'd bear.
Lake Shore Limited to Chicago
transfer to the Empire Builder
Cascades and Amtrak California to LA
transfer to the Southwest Chief to Chicago
Get Back on the LSL to Boston.
I could take it.

sounds like fun.
"If I had a million dollars"
I enjoy the comfort and the scenery on the train soo much that I wouldn't mind going cross country.

My last trip, I flew. Granted, being I was going to Puerto Rico, Amtrak wasn't exactly an option...

However, on the trip back:

* The flight was three hours, 30 minutes. It was actually early into Newark (we got the scenic route to the airport, even), and pushed back from San Juan on time - we're talking within 2 minutes. This is typical of the last few trips I've had between these two points. How often does the Acela leave NYC within 2 minutes and arrive a few early into Boston? Another thing - I knew what gate I was leaving from 2 weeks ago. Amtrak and others generally can't tell you until the train's about to leave....

* Arriving at Newark. While I waited 45 $&%$& minutes for my luggage (along with everyone else - the lame excuse was the luggage mobile got lost. I suspect shift change, as it was around 4:30pm), I couldn't buy NJT tickets - no nearby machine. It's too much to place ticket machines by the luggage machines so I can do something useful while I'm waiting?

* I didn't other with NJT or Amtrak anyway - there's NO up to date information around the airport for connecting trains, and in my experience, both are useless during the rush. Not knowing when or if a train was going to arrive, I hopped a ride with my traveling buddy, how was driving back up to Bergen county - he dumped me at Newark Penn, where I got PATH to NYC.

* PATH? About as expected - it works, but nothing more than that. Change at Journal Square was easy enough, with the connecting train arriving more or less after our's left.

* At Penn: No indication whatsoever as to if I'm peak, off peak, or what. Great scam by the MTA to extract more money from occasional riders. A simple message on the ticket machine's screen telling you what times are what, would help. Or, just get rid of the stupid two tiered pricing. Once again, train departure information wasn't posted until a few minutes prior - I asked at the info booth and found my train waiting 10 minutes beforehand on track 16. (I thought Penn was overcrowded - There's apparently enough space to stick trains for 15 minutes at a time during the rush hour.)

* We arrived 4 minutes late into Port Washington. This was an 'express', with nothing in front of it. Typical of the line. In my industry, we don't accept being 10% off all the time. But apparently, for $8.50, I'm only allowed to expect arriving in one piece, eventually - a smooth ride and meeting a published timetable, is a bonus.

In the end, it took me almost as much time to get from Newark to Port Washington as it did to get from San Juan to Newark (!). By far the worst riding part was the LIRR trip home - even the plane was smoother, much smoother. On top of that, I could have driven home from Newark, in far less time. In the comfort of my own car.

Based on the above, do you think I've even consider rail for my next trip? For all its supposed horrors, I've found flying to be a heck of a lot better - even the dreaded security check wasn't bad at all - I had to take off my boots - big whoop, they would have set the metal detector off anyway...

The day you can buy a ticket online, know where the train is going to be in advance, leave and arrive with high precision (+- 2 or 3 minutes, on long trips, +- a minute on short ones), not be bounced like a bingo ball, and be treated like a customer and not like an annoying part of the job, and actually get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time, is the day rail becomes viable in the US. Until then, it's a losing, uphill battle.

Nasadowsk wrote: * I didn't other with NJT or Amtrak anyway - there's NO up to date information around the airport for connecting trains, and in my experience, both are useless during the rush. Not knowing when or if a train was going to arrive, I hopped a ride with my traveling buddy, how was driving back up to Bergen county - he dumped me at Newark Penn, where I got PATH to NYC.

Nasadowsk, I've made the connection at EWR to Amtrak/NJT. I'm pretty sure they have a full listing of all trains stopping at the Newark Airport rail station on monitors right before you get on the escalator up to the AirTrain stop in each terminal.

The day you can buy a ticket online, know where the train is going to be in advance, leave and arrive with high precision (+- 2 or 3 minutes, on long trips, +- a minute on short ones), not be bounced like a bingo ball, and be treated like a customer and not like an annoying part of the job, and actually get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time, is the day rail becomes viable in the US. Until then, it's a losing, uphill battle.

It's several years since I was in Newark, but I remember there were ticket machines near the monorail and I bought two tickets to New York from it, including the monorail supplement.

On the way back, being very stingy, we took the bus from the town station to avoid the monorail supplement.

MudLake wrote: Nasadowsk, I've made the connection at EWR to Amtrak/NJT. I'm pretty sure they have a full listing of all trains stopping at the Newark Airport rail station on monitors right before you get on the escalator up to the AirTrain stop in each terminal.

I sure didn't see any - there was a monitor by the ticket machines, but it was broken. I've made the connection before, too, but Friday evening, against the flow of traffic, with no idea of when/if anything was going to stop there on it's way to NYC, I wasn't going to pass up a sure ride to Newark Penn by car, and roll the dice on NJT/Amtrak having it's act together (a rare occurrence at any time). After spending 3+ hours in a tin can 737 and 45 minutes waiting for my bags*, I wanted to get home, not play transit roulette. Had there been available information, and had my prior experiences been positive (last time, it was late, and just kept getting worse on board, and I had to stand the whole way in), I would have done it.

Next time, I'll either drive and park, or fly out of JFK, which is at least somewhat more reliable transit-wise - Airtrain generally functions right, and even if the LIRR blows up at Jamacia, I've got the bus or Mom's Taxi.

* Complain to the Port Authority? Yeah right, they don't care, they don't have to - they run all the airports for 100 miles....

Nasadowsk wrote:

MudLake wrote: Nasadowsk, I've made the connection at EWR to Amtrak/NJT. I'm pretty sure they have a full listing of all trains stopping at the Newark Airport rail station on monitors right before you get on the escalator up to the AirTrain stop in each terminal.

I sure didn't see any - there was a monitor by the ticket machines, but it was broken. I've made the connection before, too, but Friday evening, against the flow of traffic, with no idea of when/if anything was going to stop there on it's way to NYC, I wasn't going to pass up a sure ride to Newark Penn by car, and roll the dice on NJT/Amtrak having it's act together (a rare occurrence at any time). After spending 3+ hours in a tin can 737 and 45 minutes waiting for my bags*, I wanted to get home, not play transit roulette. Had there been available information, and had my prior experiences been positive (last time, it was late, and just kept getting worse on board, and I had to stand the whole way in), I would have done it.

Next time, I'll either drive and park, or fly out of JFK, which is at least somewhat more reliable transit-wise - Airtrain generally functions right, and even if the LIRR blows up at Jamacia, I've got the bus or Mom's Taxi.

* Complain to the Port Authority? Yeah right, they don't care, they don't have to - they run all the airports for 100 miles....

It can't hurt to complain to the port authority. I'm looking @ the njt nec schedule right now and it shows a train going from EWR-NYP essentially every 10 minutes from 5pm-7:15, granted this is not a frequent as outbound service at this time, but it's pretty decent. Don't complain to us about the LIRR PJ branch.

Have you ever ridden the airlines during inclement weather? Amtrak runs rain or shine or snow while all of the flights are grounded at JFK LGA and EWR amtrak is sold out WAS-BOS. Don't be so quick to criticize, evrey transportation mode has it's flaws.

I still think that the New York-Los Angeles, Boston-Florida type trips that are CONSTANTLY cited both here and in the media are "straw man" trips. After some prodding, the good folks on this board have in the past proven capable of debating the merits and drawbacks of more reasonable itineraries (Washington-Boston sleeper, Baltimore-Charleston, Chi-Denver).

Nonetheless, Mr Nasadowski's post makes some good points. The "overall experience" of train travel, INCLUDING the beloved corridor, strikes me as a bit "clunky" compared to air travel. Most airports I've used seem modern and fairly well run, planes USUALLY reliable/ontime (some dreadful exceptions rivaling all but the worst Amtrak delays). The dreaded check-in doesn't seem all that bad to me, especially if you're intelligent enough not to drag your huge steamer trunk through (YES, I would pay the dreaded service charge if I had to, to avoid it). Communications seem clearer, loadings more organized, no need to fight for seats, as they are reserved (even Southwest's boarding procedure is positively ZEN-LIKE compared to NYP's madhouse). The seats are indeed smaller than most of Amtrak's, but the more ergo-nomic and modern design seems to compensate for that somewhat.

I like flying,at least 85% of the time. I see no need to bash air travel; I believe in making train service better, and I think Amtrak and commuter lines could learn a lot from the better-run airlines. I DO wish we could move a bit beyond the "did you know that trains are SLOWER than those newfangled aero-planes?!" argument. Been there, done that (about 30 years before I was born).

My honeymoon itinerary this summer will involve a combination of flying and long distance rail, the best mode for each segment being the one used. I don't see what the big deal is, one way or the other.

JPS