Amtrak Tennessee Proposals: Memphis - Nashville - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Atlanta

My impression is that most I-81 truck traffic in TN and VA is not carrying loads that originate or terminate along I-81, but is traffic from Atlanta, Birmingham, and even the NC Piedmont that needs to get north of Philadelphia, but is avoiding the I-95 mess from Richmond north.

Just came back from Tennessee. Something I noticed -- there are zero straight roads anywhere....

Invariably, you wind up having to go north or south just to go east-west....

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:10 pm Just came back from Tennessee. Something I noticed -- there are zero straight roads anywhere....

Invariably, you wind up having to go north or south just to go east-west....

Absolutely! Blame it on geography. Glaciers cut path anywhere from 20 - 25 degrees to 60 degrees from true north. Also, north GA, AL, all of western NC, WVA, KY, Those glacier cuts actually extent from PA to Montgomery. Only west TN escaped somewhat.

Truck drivers will take any reasonable alternative to avoid tolls, and I-81 was essentially built to take truck traffic off of I-95 as well as aiding transportation in eastern Appalachia.

Ding Dong; GEO 101 is dismissed.

I think we all agree that the Southern Appalachian region is simply "No country for HSR"; well that is absent a level of infrastructure investment that only China is prepared to make. I cannot foresee anything arising from this initiative beyond a consultant's feeding frenzy.

Now the other point noted so far is how when General Sherman essentially leveled the place, Atlanta could not have developed a "grid" with numbered streets and avenues with blocks uniformly measured (funny how I'm thinking of Chicago? Hey I live here) instead of their "hey General Sherman left a Peachtree behind so I'm on Peachtree Street" and then someone else finds one so he also has a Peachtree Street.

All told, if Georgia ever came of mind to develop an HSR system, it would eminate from Atlanta, make a stop at Hartsfield (KATL), and spread to the likes of Macon, Statesboro (wonder why I threw that one in, anyone?), Savannah. Valdosta (that would serve Robbins AFB and WRAMA), and Columbus. That's all flatlands.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:19 am Savanna. Valdosta (that would serve Robbins AFB and WRAMA), and Columbus. That's all flatlands.

The flatlands come from what is called the fall line from about Columbus to Augusta in GA. Millions of years ago the ocean ( name unknown) lapped up to the fall line.

Reading all of this, I actually wonder if a more viable Memphis route is direct to Chattanooga via Huntsville? The NS Memphis Districts are mostly flat and straight. Some mountains and curves near Chattanooga, but most of the run west of Huntsville is pretty direct, and the run between Huntsville and Bridgeport isn't horrible.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:19 am <SNIP>
All told, if Georgia ever came of mind to develop an HSR system, it would eminate from Atlanta, make a stop at Hartsfield (KATL), and spread to the likes of Macon, Statesboro (wonder why I threw that one in, anyone?), Savanna. Valdosta (that would serve Robbins AFB and WRAMA), and Columbus. That's all flatlands.

Statesboro has a wonderful short line, after all.

The state had published a map of passenger rail 10 or more years ago, but nothing ever came of it. Recent discussion has covered both new ROW, and using existing. If they use Topper's line, that would be north of I-16. There's a Georgia Central (I think) line south of I-16.

Robbins AFB is in Warner Robins (about 20 minutes south of Macon); Moody AFB is in Valdosta. I believe Topper serves that line.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:19 am Ding Dong; GEO 101 is dismissed.

I think we all agree that the Southern Appalachian region is simply "No country for HSR"; well that is absent a level of infrastructure investment that only China is prepared to make. I cannot foresee anything arising from this initiative beyond a consultant's feeding frenzy.

As I see it that applies all way down to middle GA. Imagine a HSR directly west of NYC. But the distances of say Richmond, Raleigh, Savannah due west to Mississippi valley are long. Makes it very hard to build even HrSR. Even I-40 alignments in NC and TN have many curves that would limit traiin speeds to 40 MPH or less.

Corridor ID'd: NewsChannel

Chattanooga receives federal grant to study development of intercity Amtrak passenger rail

The City of Chattanooga has received a federal grant to study the development of an intercity Amtrak passenger rail, Mayor Tim Kelly announced Tuesday.

The $500,000 federal grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Corridor ID Program will fund a comprehensive study to develop the scope, the cost, engineering, and other requirements needed to establish Amtrak passenger rail service on existing alignments between Nashville, Chattanooga, and Atlanta.
...

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:58 pm My impression is that most I-81 truck traffic in TN and VA is not carrying loads that originate or terminate along I-81, but is traffic from Atlanta, Birmingham, and even the NC Piedmont that needs to get north of Philadelphia, but is avoiding the I-95 mess from Richmond north.

A lot of that truck traffic comes off I-40 from California. CA may extend i-40 in the Bakersfield area to hit i-5. Would be alternate route to I-80, i-70.

In investigating this seems much of the TN track on L&N or NC&STL is on 19th century ROW. Maybe tunnels undercut to allow doublestacks & modern autoracks. You can upgrade rail with CWS for heavier loads.

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:10 pm Just came back from Tennessee. Something I noticed -- there are zero straight roads anywhere....

Invariably, you wind up having to go north or south just to go east-west....

Very true. The only east-west route is called I-40. An east-west railroad was never built. What you do get is something built north-south from Ky thru TN to someplace south. Never was a "Tennessee Midland". So you end up with a roundabout route from Memphis to Nashville. The Nashville-Chattanooga dips into Alabama/Georgia before coming back into TN. May be better route from Chattanooga to Knoxville & Bristol once you get around the hills.

I'm afraid by the time any passenger rail is built TDOT will add their "choice lane" to toll HOV lanes & have major interstates built to 6 lanes or more.

This is a tough state to find a realistic route. See the NS and CSX routes. No other class 1's to speak of. Perhaps the better idea is to think of interstate routes, such as Oxford-Memphis, Little Rock-Memphis, Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Atlanta, Louisville-Nashville...

Tad from your map it’s obvious to pick out city pairs. Knoxville-Chattanooga; Chattanooga-Nashville; and Nashville-Memphis obviously would be about it. Could you do more than just city pairs? Only if you’re willing to fund trains in Alabama.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:33 pm Tad from your map it’s obvious to pick out city pairs.

I'm not sure that's the answer unless the constraint of "intrastate" is put on. Where are the people in Tennessee going? The people I know in Memphis do a lot of business in Little Rock and Saint Louis, send kids to Ole Miss and Arkansas, and spend leisure time in Chicago and NOLA.

The people I know if Chattanooga and Knoxville center around Atlanta and Charlotte as much or more than Nashville. Meanwhile Nashville seems to attract every third bachelorette party for the last ten years from all over the country.

Is an intrastate train a good idea? It really never was back in the day, the TC was always broke. Things have changed, but my purely anecdotal evidence above plus the crazy maps don't lend a good picture.