Amtrak Shutting Down Several Route Sections 12/31/2018

charlesriverbranch wrote:The sheer idiocy of this move boggles the mind.

PTC or no PTC, Amtrak passengers are far safer than they would be on the highways.

Do Anderson's buses have automatic bus control?

The liability numbers for a bus crash are presumably lower. Maybe Amtrak is angling for Congress to write some sort of liability shield/limit for exempt track operations?

I believe there is currently a $200 million Amtrak liability limit.

Dick H wrote:I believe there is currently a $200 million Amtrak liability limit.

but that liability applies to all Amtrak operations, right? What I’m theorizing is a situation where a small scale accident sees plaintiffs seeking punitives on Amtrak for operating over non PTC sections. A legislative shield would explicitly declare that Amtrak is deemed to be operating sufficiently safely over track where the FRA have said it is safe to operate without PTC.

Don't get me wrong, this is an utterly innumerate approach to improving safety, but the fatality rate per passenger mile is somewhat lower for US bus passengers than rail passengers IIRC. Which is pretty bad IMO

wonder what the state funded routes are going to do. Maine and Vermont are gonna not be happy

My current assessment is that this is a play for funding. State supported routes are political creatures as are the transcontinental long distance services.

I would recommend against buying tickets for travel in January ...

politics of money

Amtrak has special rights to run trains anywhere that the predecessor railroads gave up their passenger rights. Now they are refusing to run trains. They need to be compelled by either the STB or new legislation, or perhaps each state could assign those rights to themselves or a state contractor.

"Downeaster train service ‘not in jeopardy’ going into 2019, rail authority says"
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/08/28/ ... rity-says/
Bangor News -- August 28, 2018

Sure would be nice to hear something from Amtrak's CEO on this topic, besides just the friendly words from a press spokesperson.

Volks, Unter Ministerinformation Magliari was quite quick to contradict Bob Johnston's report circulated at Newswire.

The "clarification" seems to put Amtrak's position regarding operations over non-PTC territory unchanged from that prior to the Newswire posting. All told, Mr. Johnston appears to have done the rail travel community a disservice - beyond the generation of posting activity prevalent at the several rail discussion sites.

gprimr1 wrote:Is there good data on the actual safety risk of not running PTC? Is Richard Anderson using it as a smokescreen, or are railfans legitimately saying "We'd rather the trains run but might crash?"

I dunno, no PTC seemed to work the first 150 years of railroading...

dowlingm wrote:

charlesriverbranch wrote:The sheer idiocy of this move boggles the mind.

PTC or no PTC, Amtrak passengers are far safer than they would be on the highways.

Do Anderson's buses have automatic bus control?

The liability numbers for a bus crash are presumably lower. Maybe Amtrak is angling for Congress to write some sort of liability shield/limit for exempt track operations?

This assumes passengers will just ride this magic bus. If I were told that I would have to decamp from my sleeper, ride a 20-200 miles bus, then find a new sleeper, no way would I take the train. Game over. I might call Delta, which is very safe, or I might drive, which is significantly less safe than either a train or plane.

After the Dec. 17, 2018 overspeed wreck of a Cascades train, Amtrak said they would move the service to a longer route that didn't have Positive Train Control until the shorter route became equipped. Has anything happened since?

CNJGeep wrote:

gprimr1 wrote:Is there good data on the actual safety risk of not running PTC? Is Richard Anderson using it as a smokescreen, or are railfans legitimately saying "We'd rather the trains run but might crash?"

I dunno, no PTC seemed to work the first 150 years of railroading...

This. 110% this. PTC is Positively Total Crap. It's proven not to be positive and doesn't address the main sources of fatalities in railroading, that of grade crossings. You can make all the CNN-esque headlines you want, but the numbers don't like. 200+ people die every year in grade crossings, 20 or less in on-train accidents. Contrast that will gun murders (10,000/year), auto accidents (30,000+/year) and second hand smoke (40,000/year).

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5C041282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CNJGeep wrote:I dunno, no PTC seemed to work the first 150 years of railroading...

I agreed - until September '08 and Chatsworth...then Frankford Jct......then DuPont.

And that's just passenger.

One might say what is happening to train handling competence? I guess it was only after Naperville (1947) that there had to be any kind of train control regulation, as it was from that incident the "not to exceed 80 mph" rule developed absent some form of primitive PTC.

Finally, lest we forget the PTC enabling legislation, RSIA08, was not enacted by a "nanny state libby". It was enacted by a conservative , albeit lame duck.