Amtrak on the Florida East Coast FEC Jacksonville - Miami

NE2 wrote:There was briefly a logging line from near St. Cloud to Melbourne. It ferried motorists across the swamp while US 192 was being built.

Do you have more information about this? Do you know if it connected the ACL to the Kissimmee Valley line?

And, I am looking at an old RR map of the area showing a long-abandoned and tore out FEC spur that ran E/W from New Smyrna Beach on the coast to Blue Springs, just south of Deland. Alas, all gone.

For any reasonable passenger train operations in Florida the tracks are already in place and active. By this I mean Miami - Orlando, Miami - Tampa, Miami - Jacksonville (2 different routes and part of more) and Tampa - Jacksonville via Orlando. We do not need to build over an abandoned ROW through swampland or over long abandoned routes. All we need to do here is to make some improvements in existing routes and most of them are already in pretty darn good condition and don't need much done. Specifically on the Florida East Coast the biggest items are crossing signals, passenger stations and what to do south of West Palm Beach whether to fix the connection between the two lines in West Palm or stay on the FEC and run to downtown Miami over a line that is presently being totally rebuilt to good mainline standards. I know of at least a couple of locations where a passenger facility in Miami could be built. What is going to happen in Florida, WHO KNOWS??????
Noel Weaver

Noel, I was thinking about this route today and how everyone is focused on the FEC route between Jacksonville and Miami. But by adding additional destinations along the Atlantic coast and cutting the travel time to Miami by several hours, the splitting of the Silver Star at Jacksonville should result in attracting more passengers from the north as well.

I estimate that splitting the Silver Star at Jacksonville with one part running down the FEC will result in an additional 150 passenger trips per day from points NORTH of Jacksonville. That's about 75 passengers each way requiring an additional 1 or 2 Amfleet II coach cars on the consist from NY to Jacksonville.

I have not seen this aspect addressed yet and don't know from where the additional long-distance cars will come. Amtrak could address this in their individual 5-year route plan for the Silver Star, but I doubt that they will.

I agree that more traffic north of Jacksonville would be generated but where did you get those numbers?

Noel, I think we all agree that we already have the tracks necessary. Someone just threw that out there on a whim and I was curious because I had never heard of it.

trainmaster611 wrote:

NE2 wrote:There was briefly a logging line from near St. Cloud to Melbourne. It ferried motorists across the swamp while US 192 was being built.

Do you have more information about this? Do you know if it connected the ACL to the Kissimmee Valley line?

Per the SPV Atlas, the Union Cypress Company ran west from Melbourne. The Atlas shows the line terminating at a location called Deer Park, about 20-30 miles southeast of St. Cloud. SPV's depiction of abandoned lines is sometimes a trifle incomplete, so the Atlas is not proof that the line did not extend beyond Deer Park.

trainmaster611 wrote:I agree that more traffic north of Jacksonville would be generated but where did you get those numbers?

I understand the nature of consultant contracts and the problem of scope creep. The consultant for the State of Florida was paid to estimate the number of trips generated in Florida between Miami and Jacksonville. The consultant wasn't paid to estimate the number of trips that would be generated from points north of Jacksonville. Certainly there will be some.

I have my own methods of estimating ridership. Not having access to all of the data, it involves a certain level of 'gut'. I'm not going to go into that now. Amtrak has a proprietary method for estimating long-distance ridership. It's really up to them to crunch the numbers and prepare for the passengers that a new service down the FEC would bring. (Although if they are short on number-crunchers, I'm available.) It would be a shame if all of these new stations along the Atlantic coast were to open up and potential passengers from New York couldn't get there because all the seats were taken in Virginia.

John Stolberg

Splitting the Star is still the absolute dumbest thing we can do. The Star gets into FL before the Meteor..and it would give no one on the Meteor getting on in the Carolina's (The A-line portion the Star doesnt use) a chance to connect with the Star and head down the FEC. On top of that, a bigger Star (yes I know it was done before) would be alot harder to run over its current route. CSX for instance FORBIDS us to run the Star when we have 12 cars or more with anything less than 2 locos online. (And for good reason). In the case a bigger train loses an engine, the train will do better running the A-line....and be banned altogether on the S-line.

That's a good point about the lack of transfer for Silver Meteor passengers but they are getting a more direct ride to South Florida than Silver Star passengers anyway, it's foolish to split that train instead. If you're concerned that they wouldn't be able to get to St. Augustine to Jupiter, that's far less important than providing a direct ride from Raleigh and Columbia to South Florida.

Now I'm not familiar with this area of operations so I'll trust your expertise. I thought they were running both engines online anyway. What's wrong with running both, especially if it means you can get a longer train?

Following is a link that I got today from the NARP regarding stations on the Florida East Coast. Hope you find it as interesting as I did.

http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/r ... ion_plans/

Noel Weaver

Wrote FEC on this and there reply that there is no current plan for Amtrak at this time but they would welcome Amtrak as a customer when and if they want service. (translation- When Amtrak and the State of Florida get there act together and come to the negotiating table with enough $$$$)

Interesting list, Noel! I'm surprised so much of it is left!

Back to Amtrak on the FEC, instead of the FEC running its own!

Amtrak service along Treasure Coast on track if governor signs bill

Amtrak supporters, who hope to bring the federally subsidized passenger rail service to the Treasure Coast, are waiting to see if Gov. Rick Scott signs a bill in coming days that will allow the state to be held liable for crashes if the cause was a track problem.

"This is huge," said Kim Delaney, who is coordinating the passenger rail project for the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council.

...

For Amtrak, the biggest issue to be ironed out to even consider service on the FEC was getting a no-fault policy for operating south of the Treasure Coast. To reach the FEC tracks in West Palm Beach, Amtrak trains in Miami requires several miles of state-owned coastal tracks, company Government Affairs Director Thomas L. Stennis III said Tuesday.

...

Then there are the matters of buying new trains, improving tracks to handle 79-mph locomotives, building the new stations — and allocating shares of a $118 million rail fund set aside in the FDOT's budget starting in 2013. Officials estimate two more years until Treasure Coast train riders can take the FEC again.

The bill paves the way for Florida DOT to spend over $100 Million to reintroduce rail services on the FEC, and provide no fault type insurance for Amtrak over state owned rails (TriRail). A similar no fault type insurance was provided for Amtrak for SunRail rails last year.
FEC has already stated it'll take around $1 Billion to reintroduce trains on their tracks. How far will the State's $100 Million go? Not far!