• Amtrak Guest Rewards

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by CentralValleyRail
 
Sounds like it will. Just like the airlines. The one benefit of the zone and points was that no matter the price of the train ticket the points were always the same deducted which enabled me to use 8,000 points on an Acela trip that might've costed me $250.00 plus. I can only envison they'll bump it up to a terrible dollar for point redemption scenario.

Only hopeful is the new credit card and possibly some benefit from that. IF they go to a dollar based system I will drop them and use JetBlue AMEX exclusively. Already have 500K points with Amtrak.
  by JoeG
 
I'm planning to use up my points. While I hope they don't screw up AGR, I'm not optimistic. Certainly if and when they change the program it isn't likely to be for the better.
  by Jeff Smith
 
I've got about 29k points; better book now!

Two things I find annoying right now:

1-Inability to book online
2-Lack of sleeper capacity on popular (LSL in particular) routes. Although that's less AGR and more Amtrak
3-Zone map confusion in the East/Northeast
4-Lack of clarity as to how connections work
5-Transferability of points from other "FF" programs can be a bit tedious

Okay, that's four, so sue me. What, I can't count? ;-)

Things I like right now:

1-Easy point trolling. Very easy to do, particularly on the NEC, when a cheap ticket still gets you 100 points or more (more than one ticket, more points). Used to love that going Hartford to even just Wallingford or Meriden, or even as far as Stamford
2-That's it
  by prr60
 
The problem is that the AGR program is so lucrative for members that, in some respects, it is financially detrimental to the company. Some free travel redemptions are virtually giving away the store. Under the existing program, it is possible to reserve the most expensive accommodation months in advance for a relative handful of points thus removing that accommodation from likely sale. That makes little business sense.

As an example, the California Zephyr has a only a few dates in October with full bedrooms available Chicago to Emeryville. On those dates with bedroom availability, the room cost is presently $1629 (ouch!) and the rail fare is $130 per person - a total of just under $2000 for a party of two. With bedrooms already sold out for much of the month and travel still two months in the future, it is likely that someone will buy that room for about $2000 (or $1860 for one person).

I could call Amtrak right now and grab that room out of inventory for 40,000 points - 40,000 points that I earned almost entirely by AGR credit card use. How much revenue does Amtrak get for those 40,000 points? Chase buys points from Amtrak for distribution to AGR credit card holders for something like 1 cent each. Even retail sales through points.com are about 3 cents each, and points.com keeps a decent cut of the purchase. Even making a stretch (and it is a stretch) by saying that Amtrak gets an average of 2 cents of revenue for each point distributed, that $2000 room is being "sold" to me for $800 (probably closer to $400). Amtrak is losing at least $1200 of revenue to buy my loyalty, and since I don't even have to ride Amtrak to get lots of points, they are not really getting that. To make matters worse for Amtrak, I could cancel that reservation 5 minutes prior to departure and get all my points returned to my account. That room would leave Chicago empty with zero revenue to Amtrak.

Airlines long ago ended loyalty program practices like that. They are not in business to give away their most valuable and lucrative products for next to nothing. Most airline redemptions use inventory control to ensure that accommodations that have strong revenue potential stay open for sale. Southwest uses a points:cost redemption system that seems similar to what Amtrak is introducing. It is still possible to book airline award travel at good rates, but it takes some timing and route flexibility. With air travel, you can't just pick any date and flight and grab the last first class seat months in advance with the expectation paying the lowest rate in miles.

I hate to see that AGR gravy train ending because I also took advantage of Amtrak's generosity, but if it is assumed that Amtrak is trying to operate like an actual business, this is not a surprising change. Of course, it all depends on the details due to be announced on August 31, but I think the days of cheap points travel for expensive trips are coming to an end.
  by JimB
 
prr60 wrote: I could call Amtrak right now and grab that room out of inventory for 40,000 points - 40,000 points that I earned almost entirely by AGR credit card use.
My impression is that Amtrak has never done much in the way of capacity limitations on award travel. If a room is available and you have the points, the room is yours. I'd love to know what percentage of sleeper travel is done by folks using points and how that impacts the financial results for the long distance trains. It can't be helpful.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
I'm back from the lands of the DB and OBB, where I don't think either system has a rewards plan.

With 16134 of those things around, and if I don't use Auto Train on my '16 Florida trip, me and they part company.

Personally, I could care less what Amtrak does with the plan, or for that matter what United does with theirs (and to Jet Blue, who I flew to JFK during May, need I be bombarded with "you are not in our True Blue plan; come on and sign up").

Now I wish Amtrak would establish a means to donate Guest Reward points much as has United, where I "clean 'em out" to one of their charitable beneficiaries each year (last year was "Flights for Vets").

For hotels, I belong to IHG (Holiday Inn et al), Marriott, Hilton, Best Western, and Hyatt. Since there no "hoops to jump through" with any of 'em, i.e. either a room is open or it is not, I do use those. From Mr. Pittsburgher's , PRR60, immediate discussion, it would appear that Amtrak runs their program in much the same manner as do the hotel chains. The only difference there is with the hotels, the property at which a paid room is booked, a portion of that rate is "paid" into a "common pot". As a guest redeems points, the individual property is reimbursed at a rate in local currency in the vicinity of that room's "rack" rate. Therefore, the hotel is not deprived of revenue on a point redemption room - same as your car dealer doing warranty work. It's sort of like insurance.

Now where I think the airlines were in the wrong, was within a year of them all starting their plans, they decreed (and in a dereg world, they have the unilateral prerogative to do so) that the points earned belong to the traveler regardless of who was ultimately paying the fare. I think to this day, that the party paying for the travel, i.e. the boss, should have ownership of those points to be used for other employee travel. The airlines, and so everyone else, saw it differently.

But then, there is really an obsession over the things. I understand some will simply take a joyride with no purpose other than to qualify for another "precious metal" level. I can recall last February, on my badly delayed United flight to Miami, there was a fellow griping rather audibly about "what a f!@#ed outfit United has become, Smiszek (UA CEO) thinks all there was to merging airlines was painting planes". I said to him "if they are so terrible, why do you fly 'em?", "Two million miles is why".

Nothing more was said.

Finally, I am at a loss to understand why this topic is SO special to warrant "sticky" status. I always thought the objective of this Forum's management was to minimize the use of such and that each topic would stand upon its own merits. Regarding the other sticky poll, I can see that Mr. Smith wanted to measure the reception of the previously disabled poll feature. So far, I'd dare say that while the topic of "saddest stations" has generated worthwhile discussion, not too many are interested in the poll. I too hope the topic will be relegated to a stand on its own merits status.
  by gprimr1
 
I made this topic a sticky so that we could avoid having a bunch of dupe threads, since the new AGR has been leaking out in increments. I don't expect this to stay a sticky forever.
  by AgentSkelly
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: But then, there is really an obsession over the things. I understand some will simply take a joyride with no purpose other than to qualify for another "precious metal" level. I can recall last February, on my badly delayed United flight to Miami, there was a fellow griping rather audibly about "what a f!@#ed outfit United has become, Smiszek (UA CEO) thinks all there was to merging airlines was painting planes". I said to him "if they are so terrible, why do you fly 'em?", "Two million miles is why".
People forget these are loyalty programs and you can always take your business elsewhere; When I stopped flying United after several trips connecting at O'Hare where my luggage didn't make it at my destination, I actually gave up my miles to Make-a-Wish so United would spend money on not screwing up on a flight to grant a kid's wish. And I also killed my Mileage Plus account; if I ever fly on a Star Alliance flight, its going to Air Canada Aeroplan instead, but my primary choices in airlines are Delta and Alaska.
  by bostontrainguy
 
We've been going from Boston to Florida every year on our points. I mainly use only my Chase credit card because of this and I like the zone system which works great for a ride down the east coast.

I would have liked the eastern zone to go all the way to New Orleans however to visit there, but eliminating the zone system will probably effect us negatively.

I'm thinking I would prefer that they leave it alone.
  by jcpatten
 
I did a quickie comparison of point costs of old vs new, based on my point usage in the last several years. Basically I think it will end up that the best point break goes to 2-zone trips.

My NYP to ORL Silver Meteor points trip last January would have cost me 34,500 instead of 25,000 (one zone bedroom) (it was about $1000).

A BOS to CHI Lake Shore roomette trip will cost 12,834 points versus 20,000.
  by Greg Moore
 
Hmm, I missed that you can do a check of costs and I've got to say for my trips to Atlanta, I think this is a net win for me!
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